Map poly poster -> star trek character

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Genocide in science fiction isn't really genocide

Only a holocaust denier would fall back on the fiction defense.

[Al B. Sure!]

Heraclitus is being a racist, as usual.

I would think the value we ascribe to other humans is not a consequence of our genetic relation, even if that may be what we are instinctually predisposed to do, but a result of an understanding that other humans possess sentience; if an alien species possesses it likewise in a recognizably similar form, their value as sentient individuals should be equal to that of members of our own species.

Although, we do ascribe human worth to those without that level of intelligence...


And I read that episode summary for my supposed analogous character; I'm assuming it's the genetically engineered guy who grows up rapidly. I don't see the connection.

[BeBMan]

Only a holocaust denier would fall back on the fiction defense.

Let's hope Drake doesn't see this

[BeBMan]

And I read that episode summary for my supposed analogous character; I'm assuming it's the genetically engineered guy who grows up rapidly. I don't see the connection.

[Heraclitus]

Heraclitus is being a racist, as usual.

Hey its not like I pretend otherwise.

I would think the value we ascribe to other humans is not a consequence of our genetic relation, even if that may be what we are instinctually predisposed to do, but a result of an understanding that other humans possess sentience; if an alien species possesses it likewise in a recognizably similar form, their value as sentient individuals should be equal to that of members of our own species.

I care about humans because humans generally think like I do. I think the majority of poly posters don't recognize just how alien an alien value system would be. I also care about humans because they are my family so to speak, every man is a brother in a sense. Sure you can love an adopted sister or son, but the neural pathways are there because you are most likley genetically similar to your sister or son.

As to racism, I prefer a world filled with nothing but Blacks who are of intrinsic value to me because they are my relatives and broadly speaking aspire to the same things as I do, to a world filled with 200 IQ aliens who want to turn the mass of the universe into paper clips or modify it according to a nonhuman value system.

I don't divide people into those who belong to my tribe and those who don't, I try and meter out a appropriate amount of caring that corresponds to my memetic and genetic relatedness to them.

Of course my attempt at Christianity moderates this. Which is one of the main reasons I try and live according to God's word, he keeps my morality more conventional and in touch with humanity than it would be otherwise. Before aspiring to it I had some really wierd ideas.

[Elok]

I would think the value we ascribe to other humans is not a consequence of our genetic relation, even if that may be what we are instinctually predisposed to do, but a result of an understanding that other humans possess sentience; if an alien species possesses it likewise in a recognizably similar form, their value as sentient individuals should be equal to that of members of our own species.

Although, we do ascribe human worth to those without that level of intelligence...

While I don't necessarily agree with Hera here, I should point out that crows and octopi are both surprisingly intelligent beings. The one is common vermin to us, the other gets eaten by the millions every day. Meanwhile, pandas are idiot creatures too dumb to survive without millions of dollars in assistance...which we gladly pay to sustain them, because they look like cute, fat human infants. The sort of Enlightenment-ish ideas you're describing don't correspond all that well to how humans actually think. Also, the more intelligent an alien species is, the more of a potential threat it represents to humanity.

[Al B. Sure!]

I care about humans because humans generally think like I do. I think the majority of poly posters don't recognize just how alien an alien value system would be.

I'm not familiar with Star Trek so I can't be sure but aren't most of these aliens pretty much like humans? Like Spock is logical and detached but is still essentially human.

We're not talking potentially real aliens that could be completely alien to us; I thought we're talking in the context of Star Trek. Again, I'm not familiar enough to know if the aliens in the show are that alien or if they're like humans but taking a particularly philosophical viewpoint to the extreme (like Spock and stoicism).

I also care about humans because they are my family so to speak, every man is a brother in a sense. Sure you can love an adopted sister or son, but the neural pathways are there because you are most likley genetically similar to your sister or son.

See there's your justification for racism.

As to racism, I prefer a world filled with nothing but Blacks who are of intrinsic value to me because they are my relatives and broadly speaking aspire to the same things as I do, to a world filled with 200 IQ aliens who want to turn the mass of the universe into paper clips or modify it according to a nonhuman value system.

But a world filled with nothing but Slovenians is preferable to you than a world filled with nothing but Mandarins.

I don't divide people into those who belong to my tribe and those who don't, I try and meter out a appropriate amount of caring that corresponds to my memetic and genetic relatedness to them.

Genetic relatedness

Of course my attempt at Christianity moderates this. Which is one of the main reasons I try and live according to God's word, he keeps my morality more conventional and in touch with humanity than it would be otherwise. Before aspiring to it I had some really wierd ideas.

Had some really weird ideas?

[Al B. Sure!]

While I don't necessarily agree with Hera here, I should point out that crows and octopi are both surprisingly intelligent beings. The one is common vermin to us, the other gets eaten by the millions every day. Meanwhile, pandas are idiot creatures too dumb to survive without millions of dollars in assistance...which we gladly pay to sustain them, because they look like cute, fat human infants. The sort of Enlightenment-ish ideas you're describing don't correspond all that well to how humans actually think. Also, the more intelligent an alien species is, the more of a potential threat it represents to humanity.

If crows and octopi talked to us, I'm sure our mentality towards them would be much different.

[Egbert]

But a world filled with nothing but Slovenians is preferable to you than a world filled with nothing but Mandarins.

I can relate to that. I would prefer a world filled with Australians to a world filled with Mandarins or Slovenians or whatever nationality. Go ahead and call me a racist if you please, I care not.

[Egbert]

If crows and octopi talked to us, I'm sure our mentality towards them would be much different.

Yeah, we might enslave them.

[Al B. Sure!]

While I don't necessarily agree with Hera here, I should point out that crows and octopi are both surprisingly intelligent beings. The one is common vermin to us, the other gets eaten by the millions every day. Meanwhile, pandas are idiot creatures too dumb to survive without millions of dollars in assistance...which we gladly pay to sustain them, because they look like cute, fat human infants. The sort of Enlightenment-ish ideas you're describing don't correspond all that well to how humans actually think. Also, the more intelligent an alien species is, the more of a potential threat it represents to humanity.

Anyway, just because people do something doesn't mean it's what we should be doing. Two hundred years ago, enslaving other humans was considered just dandy.

Let's hope for some more progressiveness when dealing with other intelligent beings than what Heraclitus believes.

[Elok]

The thing is, I don't know that we should be valuing the octopi or crows any more than we do (though we ought to value the pandas less, if only for cost-effectiveness of limited conservation $$$). Why should moral worth be derived from cognitive ability? It's not like we consider the intelligent to be of greater moral worth than the stupid within our own species. If anything, it's closer to the reverse; murdering a retarded guy feels somehow worse than killing an able person. Like killing a child.

[DaShi]

"Pass me the speech center of the brain."

[Al B. Sure!]

The thing is, I don't know that we should be valuing the octopi or crows any more than we do (though we ought to value the pandas less, if only for cost-effectiveness of limited conservation $$$). Why should moral worth be derived from cognitive ability? It's not like we consider the intelligent to be of greater moral worth than the stupid within our own species. If anything, it's closer to the reverse; murdering a retarded guy feels somehow worse than killing an able person. Like killing a child.

Yeah that's why I said, "Although we do ascribe human worth to those without that level of intelligence"...

I suppose my mentality would posit that 10 fully functional human beings are more valuable than 10 mentally retarded ones... but I think that's a better mentality than Heraclitus' 10 Slovenians are more valuable than 10 Mandarins.

[giblets]

You make nerds look cool.

QFT