Central Planning vs the market

[Jon Miller]

But China would be better place to be an entrepreneur at (or an investor at).

JM

[Dinner]

So your point is that central planning allows countries to engage in rent seeking behavior and attempt to screw the other countries? And this is somehow a good thing? If everyone tries to do it then we all lose.

My arguement is that other countries engage in mercantilist behaviors (not classic rent seeking) and if we continue to act completely hands off then our economy suffers not just disproportionately (in an economic sense) but also strategically. Just about every advanced military weapons system uses REEs, China is not behaving in a rational free market manner and instead it is attempting to monopolize a strategic resource which represents an unacceptable risk to the national security of every other country. Therefore we need to combat such behaviors by encouraging production of REEs domestically but also over seas in countries other then China so that no one country can monopolize REE production at it's source (as China has virtually done).

[Dinner]

Yes, my facts are certainly worse than Oerdin's monster paragraph of incorrect statements.

**** off, Drake. Tupac is dead so let that handle die.

[Fake Boris]

This. "Becoming less bad" != "Outperforming"

The wonderful progress China and India have been making lately (as in the last couple of decades) is due ENTIRELY to the changes they've made to LIBERATE their markets.

a) Realpolitik is a zero-sum game, therefore to some extent they've been kicking America's ass.
b) It's disingenuous to pretend their progress all comes from liberalization, if they have deregulated with the express intent of keeping control over what gives them an edge on world markets.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Albeit I'm not sure I'd go so far as to call a welfare or food stamps program "central planning", but certainly the subsidies etc to big Ag in conjunction with such programs would be.

So if the government took, say, half of income in taxes and solely used that income for police/military and alleviate the condition of the poor, through welfare and food stamps, you would not consider the central planning? I'm not being sarcastic or anything, I'm honestly asking the question.

[giblets]

The wonderful progress China and India have been making lately (as in the last couple of decades) is due ENTIRELY to the changes they've made to LIBERATE their markets.

How do you know that?

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

It's like a swimmer underwater dropping some lead weights and beginning to float up. A guy at the surface is still in a better position, and it's not the remaining lead weights that are helping the underwater guy float...

There's this tremendous misunderstanding between levels and growth rates. Growth rates are good because they lead to higher levels, but I'd rather be living in the US with a stagnant (but large) GDP per capita than in China with a growing (but still small) GDP per capita.

Someone obviously enjoys their SCUBA time.

[KrazyHorse]

How do you know that?

[Whoha]

My arguement is that other countries engage in mercantilist behaviors (not classic rent seeking) and if we continue to act completely hands off then our economy suffers not just disproportionately (in an economic sense) but also strategically. Just about every advanced military weapons system uses REEs, China is not behaving in a rational free market manner and instead it is attempting to monopolize a strategic resource which represents an unacceptable risk to the national security of every other country. Therefore we need to combat such behaviors by encouraging production of REEs domestically but also over seas in countries other then China so that no one country can monopolize REE production at it's source (as China has virtually done).

In the case of Rare earths it is the environmental issues(toxic and radioactive sludge) that allowed China to outcompete our guys, of course they still needed Bush to let them buy out our mines and shut them down.

[Tupac Shakur]

the trend is obviously in favor of asians

This is also retarded.

[OneFootInTheGrave]

market... but pure one is anarchy, while pure other is impossible, as even most controlling dictatorship cannot really be total central planning. So even if possible for someone centrally to dictate all I do, I'd select Anarchy instead

[Tupac Shakur]

In the case of Rare earths it is the environmental issues(toxic and radioactive sludge) that allowed China to outcompete

Much better than Oerdin (so long as the retarded Bush bit is cut out).

Low labor costs also play a part, but I doubt you'll see Oerdin calling for laxer environmental regulations or a decreased minimum wage so that American can "kick China's ass" in the mining of rare earths.

[MRT144]

It's hard for me to believe that anyone in the US would prefer to live in China given the amount of awful backwards **** that's circa 1880s US going on there. the US is better off letting China be a bastion of pollution.

[Whoha]

Everyone would have been happy to let the Chinese pollute their country so that we might economically benefit, but sadly they want to be idiots and we are having to start our mines back up again, higher wages and environmental protections included.

[Berzerker]

So if the government took, say, half of income in taxes and solely used that income for police/military and alleviate the condition of the poor, through welfare and food stamps, you would not consider the central planning? I'm not being sarcastic or anything, I'm honestly asking the question.

I cant imagine spending that much but charity and self-defense dont really qualify as central planning, they're common to all systems for reasons other than controlling the economy. Of course with a massive welfare state and bloated military approaching 1/2 the market's production thats certainly gonna screw up the market in a variety of ways and I sure wouldn't be surprised to see that system run by central planners. I just dont know yet if I'd call it central planning when the state intervenes in the economy to counter a market distortion created by another intervention.

Ben, whats that about a coming labor crunch in China? I recently saw something about a housing construction bubble with a ****load of empty apts