Yay! Another political quiz!

[giblets]

First of all, I wasn't trying to imply that you only have "made it" in the US if your kids go to college. That's false, and not everyone should go to college. I don't think even half of high school graduates should go to college. It's not useful for everyone.

Well, you did make the generalization about how supposedly "their kids go to college". Considering that the income of someone with a high school diploma is in decline your kids are kind of screwed if they don't go.

Second, if you think these people are poor after they move here you are wrong. We might consider them poor, but our standards are absurdly high compared to most of the world, especially the parts of the world most immigrants come from. By moving here and working hard, they can vastly improve their standard of living. They aren't likely to become Rockefellers but to them this is still the land of opportunity.

I said their standard of living will increase. That is because they go from being poor Guatemalans or whatever to being poor Americans. They're still poor people.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

How many immigrants actually 'make it' and send their kids to college? They're still going to be poor, they just won't be destitute.

So dies the American dream. Used to be America was renowned for its intergenerational mobility. Shame that victimology and pessimism have replaced the dream.

[Hauldren Collider]

I think it still is. We've always had our downers and doubters, we just happen to have one as president right now.

[Hauldren Collider]

Well, you did make the generalization about how supposedly "their kids go to college". Considering that the income of someone with a high school diploma is in decline your kids are kind of screwed if they don't go.

I can't prove this of course, but I'd bet that a lot of this decline can be explained simply by the fact that more people are going to college. So if previously the top 30% went to college and now the top 40% are going to college, the median income of those who don't go to college is going to decrease, simply because you're taking a different sample.

[giblets]

I can't prove this of course, but I'd bet that a lot of this decline can be explained simply by the fact that more people are going to college. So if previously the top 30% went to college and now the top 40% are going to college, the median income of those who don't go to college is going to decrease, simply because you're taking a different sample.

That effect would also decrease the median income of people holding college degrees. Besides, you can see that for "all education levels" the median is stagnant, and the median American held a high school diploma in the 80's and does today.

[giblets]

So dies the American dream. Used to be America was renowned for its intergenerational mobility. Shame that victimology and pessimism have replaced the dream.

Let's close our eyes and pretend everything is okay. Are you saying the American dream is literally a dream?

[Hauldren Collider]

That effect would also decrease the median income of people holding college degrees. Besides, you can see that for "all education levels" the median is stagnant, and the median American held a high school diploma in the 80's and does today.

That's a good point, but another thing I forgot to mention--aren't more people graduating high school, too? That would bring the median down for those with a high school education.

Since I don't have any data you could be right, but I'd be interested in seeing how much can be explained simply through sample changes and how much is some actual socioeconomic thing.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

The dream is as much an artifact of impression as it is reality. Bang away at how bad things are and it becomes a self inflicted reality.

Negative waves man negative waves.

Might as well just call it game over and sit and pout.

[Hauldren Collider]

I think the key observation to make here is for all the supposed flaws in the American Dream people keep moving here in droves. They seem to believe in it.

[giblets]

The dream is as much an artifact of impression as it is reality. Bang away at how bad things are and it becomes a self inflicted reality.

Negative waves man negative waves.

Might as well just call it game over and sit and pout.

Have you been reading too many self-help books or something?

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

@ HC,

Damn them for their naivete.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Have you been reading too many self-help books or something?

Come now buck up Mr. Snarky Pouts.

[giblets]

I think the key observation to make here is for all the supposed flaws in the American Dream people keep moving here in droves. They seem to believe in it.

How many developed countries don't get lots of immigrants? Yeah, if people are destitute they will look for higher wages elsewhere.

[Jon Miller]

So dies the American dream. Used to be America was renowned for its intergenerational mobility. Shame that victimology and pessimism have replaced the dream.

Why shouldn't it when the income of the bottom 75% has stayed the same or decreased, their costs have skyrocketed, and only the income of the very wealthy has increased significantly in the last 30 years?

I would link articles, but it doesn't take much googling to find ones that show that there is a lot less upward mobility in the last 30 years than in the years before that.

JM

[Jon Miller]

I think the key observation to make here is for all the supposed flaws in the American Dream people keep moving here in droves. They seem to believe in it.

It is better to be a poor person in the US than a poor person in India.

It doesn't mean that they imagine that they can become a wealthy person in the US. Nor does it mean that it is possible for them to become a wealthy person in the US (or for their children to).

JM