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  • He turned me into a newt!

    Rumors that Ahmidinejad is ousted. Interesting...

    Ahmadinejad allies charged with sorcery

    Iranian power struggle between president and supreme leader sees arrests and claims of undue influence of chief of staff

    Saeed Kamali Dehghan guardian.co.uk, Thursday 5 May 2011 19.23 BST

    Close allies of Iran's president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, have been accused of using supernatural powers to further his policies amid an increasingly bitter power struggle between him and the country's supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei.

    Several people said to be close to the president and his chief of staff, Esfandiar Rahim Mashaei, have been arrested in recent days and charged with being "magicians" and invoking djinns (spirits).

    Ayandeh, an Iranian news website, described one of the arrested men, Abbas Ghaffari, as "a man with special skills in metaphysics and connections with the unknown worlds".

    The arrests come amid a growing rift between Ahmadinejad and Khamenei which has prompted several MPs to call for the president to be impeached.

    On Sunday, Ahmadinejad returned to his office after an 11-day walkout in an apparent protest over Khamenei's reinstatement of the intelligence minister, who the president had initiallyasked to resign.

    Ahmadinejad's unprecedented disobedience prompted harsh criticism from conservatives who warned that he might face the fate of Abdulhassan Banisadr, Iran's first post-revolution president who was impeached and exiled for allegedly attempting to undermine clerical power.

    Ayatollah Mesbah Yazdi, a hardline cleric close to Khamenei, warned that disobeying the supreme leader – who has the ultimate power in Iran – is equivalent to "apostasy from God".

    Ahmadinejad has so far declined to officially back Khamenei's ruling over Heydar Moslehi, the minister at the centre of the row. In the first cabinet meeting since the president returned, Moslehi was absent.

    Khamenei's supporters believe that the top-level confrontation stems from the increasing influence of Mashaei, an opponent of greater involvement of clerics in politics, who is being groomed by Ahmadinejad as a possible successor.

    But the feud has taken a metaphysical turn following the release of an Iranian documentary alleging the imminent return of the Hidden Imam Mahdi – the revered saviour of Shia Islam, whose reappearance is anticipated by believers in a manner comparable to that with which Christian fundamentalists anticipate the second coming of Jesus.

    Conservative clerics, who say that the Mahdi's return cannot be predicted, have accused a "deviant current" within the president's inner circle, including Mashaei, of being responsible for the film.

    Ahmadinejad's obsession with the hidden imam is well known. He often refers to him in his speeches and in 2009 said that he had documentary evidence that the US was trying to prevent Mahdi's return.

    Since Ahmadinejad's return this week, at least 25 people, who are believed to be close to Mashaei, have been arrested. Among them is Abbas Amirifar, head of the government's cultural committee and some journalists of Mashaei's recently launched newspaper, Haft-e-Sobh.

    On Saturday, Mojtaba Zolnour, Khamenei's deputy representative in the powerful Revolutionary Guard, said: "Today Mashaei is the actual president. Mr Ahmadinejad has held on to a decaying rope by relying on Mashaei."
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011...d-with-sorcery
    "Just puttin on the foil" - Jeff Hanson

    “In a democracy, I realize you don’t need to talk to the top leader to know how the country feels. When I go to a dictatorship, I only have to talk to one person and that’s the dictator, because he speaks for all the people.” - Jimmy Carter

  • #2
    I'd find it hard to be happy about Iran's reactionary clerics ousting the elected president using superstitious claptrap, no matter how much Ahmadinejad may suck.
    Tutto nel mondo è burla

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Boris Godunov View Post
      I'd find it hard to be happy about Iran's reactionary clerics ousting the elected president using superstitious claptrap, no matter how much Ahmadinejad may suck.
      Did you get to this part of the article ?

      Ahmadinejad's obsession with the hidden imam is well known. He often refers to him in his speeches and in 2009 said that he had documentary evidence that the US was trying to prevent Mahdi's return.
      With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

      Steven Weinberg

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      • #4
        There's a big difference between holding silly superstitious beliefs and actually using such beliefs to arrest people and oust elected officials from power.
        Tutto nel mondo è burla

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        • #5
          Granted their is plenty of crazy to go around in the ruling circles of Iran but the term elected president in this particular case was widely debated. And by debated I mean ruthlessly beaten into effect.
          "Just puttin on the foil" - Jeff Hanson

          “In a democracy, I realize you don’t need to talk to the top leader to know how the country feels. When I go to a dictatorship, I only have to talk to one person and that’s the dictator, because he speaks for all the people.” - Jimmy Carter

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          • #6
            Gingrich?
            Speaking of Erith:

            "It's not twinned with anywhere, but it does have a suicide pact with Dagenham" - Linda Smith

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            • #7
              Looks like Ahmadinejad got slightly too big for his britches. There were rumblings that the Supreme Council wasn't all that happy with his bluster, but we'll see where this leads.
              “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
              - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Boris Godunov View Post
                I'd find it hard to be happy about Iran's reactionary clerics ousting the elected president using superstitious claptrap, no matter how much Ahmadinejad may suck.
                Yeah, as much as I would like to see him out, the method is a bit out there.
                It's almost as if all his overconfident, absolutist assertions were spoonfed to him by a trusted website or subreddit. Sheeple
                RIP Tony Bogey & Baron O

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                • #9
                  One uses the tools one has available.

                  If this is true, it may be a sign that Khamenei is favoring a more moderate stance than the "**** the world insanity of afterdinnerjacket" (which would be a good thing despite Boris' "feelings" on the subject)
                  We need seperate human-only games for MP/PBEM that dont include the over-simplifications required to have a good AI
                  If any man be thirsty, let him come unto me and drink. Vampire 7:37
                  Just one old soldiers opinion. E Tenebris Lux. Pax quaeritur bello.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Boris Godunov View Post
                    There's a big difference between holding silly superstitious beliefs and actually using such beliefs to arrest people and oust elected officials from power.


                    Yeah, sure - it certainly makes sense basing your foreign policy on the belief of the return of a messiah. But, well, you are american so you probably don't find it wrong that a president makes inane religious based decisions.
                    With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

                    Steven Weinberg

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      dp
                      With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

                      Steven Weinberg

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by SpencerH View Post
                        One uses the tools one has available.

                        If this is true, it may be a sign that Khamenei is favoring a more moderate stance than the "**** the world insanity of afterdinnerjacket" (which would be a good thing despite Boris' "feelings" on the subject)
                        As much as I may want to see Michelle Bachmann booted from office and never have her grace a TV screen again, were it to be done via a Witchcraft trial and burning at the stake, I would be far more appalled by that than comforted.

                        At any rate, the article also notes that feud doesn't have anything to do with the clerics objecting to Ahmidinejad's hard line stance, but rather the belief that he and his ministers are trying to curtail the clerics' involvement with politics. Note that it is the conservative clerics that are behind the accusations. If anything, this is just an example of the iron grip with which the clerics rule the country, not any sign of "moderating" the government.
                        Tutto nel mondo è burla

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by BlackCat View Post


                          Yeah, sure - it certainly makes sense basing your foreign policy on the belief of the return of a messiah. But, well, you are american so you probably don't find it wrong that a president makes inane religious based decisions.
                          If you think Ahmidinejad's foreign policy is actually based on this belief, rather than him using said belief as a means to justify his extreme views, then you're more a fool than I thought...
                          Tutto nel mondo è burla

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Boris Godunov View Post
                            If you think Ahmidinejad's foreign policy is actually based on this belief, rather than him using said belief as a means to justify his extreme views, then you're more a fool than I thought...
                            Are you trying to say that he is rational nonreligious politician that just use the religious crap to control the masses ?
                            With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

                            Steven Weinberg

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by BlackCat View Post
                              Are you trying to say that he is rational nonreligious politician that just use the religious crap to control the masses ?
                              No, I'm saying he's a cynical opportunist for whom certain religious ideas make extremely useful propaganda tools. This isn't something new--dictators and theocrats have been doing this since the dawn of time. Where have you been?

                              My main point is that I see absolutely no reason to think that the clerics exercising their powers and muscling him out is actually something we should be happy about. Have they really successfully conned you into believing they're better?
                              Tutto nel mondo è burla

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