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  • asset price modeling

    Does anyone have links to information about the empirical and theoretical justifications for modeling asset prices with Levy distributions?

    In my head, the justification for log-normal returns goes roughly like this:
    1. Stock returns over a period of time are just the product of returns over smaller periods.
    2. EMH says these returns are independent.
    3. So I've got the product of a bunch of independent random variables. So what?
    4. Well, stock prices can't be smaller than 0 and can't actually reach infinity, so we should have a finite variance.
    5. Which means the log should have a finite variance too!
    6. Central limit theorem.
    7. So the sum of the logs of the returns is normally distributed.
    8. Thus, the returns are log-normally distributed.

    Yay! So how can anyone argue against this?

    Oh, wait, (5) isn't actually true, I realize. Over any given time period a share has a positive probility of becoming permanently worthless. OK, that gets us infinite variance of the log, fine, now we can play with the other stable distributions.

    Is it just the possibility of bankruptcy that breaks log-normal returns? Or is there something else at work?

    Aside:
    (2) also gives me pause. I can imagine a system where the distribution of expected returns for a given asset was a function of its price, and therefore the returns would only be conditionally independent. It's not quite clear to me if this breaks the CLT.

  • #2
    God you're tedious.
    Speaking of Erith:

    "It's not twinned with anywhere, but it does have a suicide pact with Dagenham" - Linda Smith

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    • #3
      Wait, haven't you spent your last decade almost-not-quite getting a PhD in something genuinely boring like chemistry?

      Comment


      • #4
        Why don't you just PM KrazyHorse with this, post it on a finance forum (if they even exist), or ask an old finance professor... oh wait, you don't have a formal financial education

        Realistically, KH is probably the only one who could help you. I sure can't. This is (I think) beyond undergraduate finance.

        I think this is just a "Look at me! I'm smart! I think about incredibly boring dull **** and I love it!" thread. You know full well no one here but KH would be able to help you.

        As further evidence, I'm not sure if this is what you're looking for or if these address your questions but googling found a crapload of papers... so there's less need for a thread like this:

        Levy Processes in Asset Pricing: http://www.columbia.edu/~sk75/levy.pdf
        Pure Jump Levy Processes for Asset Price Modeling: http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc...=rep1&type=pdf
        Estimation methods for Levy based models of asset prices: https://www.stat.purdue.edu/~figuero...lidesTalk1.pdf

        And on and on and on...
        "Flutie was better than Kelly, Elway, Esiason and Cunningham." - Ben Kenobi
        "I have nothing against Wilson, but he's nowhere near the same calibre of QB as Flutie. Flutie threw for 5k+ yards in the CFL." -Ben Kenobi

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        • #5
          I think this is just a "Look at me! I'm smart! I think about incredibly boring dull **** and I love it!" thread.


          No. I keep getting asked to do stuff like this at work, and I'd prefer to do it right.

          edit: that isn't to say that I wouldn't have posted this thread anyway, since it actually is really interesting
          Last edited by Kuciwalker; April 1, 2011, 19:41.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Kuciwalker View Post
            I think this is just a "Look at me! I'm smart! I think about incredibly boring dull **** and I love it!" thread.


            No. I keep getting asked to do stuff like this at work, and I'd prefer to do it right.
            So why ask here where honestly, who can help you besides KH? Why not shoot him a PM?

            Or hell, google it like I did. I'm sure one of those (or other) papers will shed some light on your problem.
            "Flutie was better than Kelly, Elway, Esiason and Cunningham." - Ben Kenobi
            "I have nothing against Wilson, but he's nowhere near the same calibre of QB as Flutie. Flutie threw for 5k+ yards in the CFL." -Ben Kenobi

            Comment


            • #7
              As further evidence, I'm not sure if this is what you're looking for or if these address your questions but googling found a crapload of papers... so there's less need for a thread like this:


              If I were able to read and understand those papers without a lot of extra study then I probably wouldn't need to ask the question in the OP.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Kuciwalker View Post
                As further evidence, I'm not sure if this is what you're looking for or if these address your questions but googling found a crapload of papers... so there's less need for a thread like this:


                If I were able to read and understand those papers without a lot of extra study then I probably wouldn't need to ask the question in the OP.


                I appreciate the humility. I can't help you though. This is beyond undergrad stuff.
                "Flutie was better than Kelly, Elway, Esiason and Cunningham." - Ben Kenobi
                "I have nothing against Wilson, but he's nowhere near the same calibre of QB as Flutie. Flutie threw for 5k+ yards in the CFL." -Ben Kenobi

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Al B. Sure! View Post
                  So why ask here where honestly, who can help you besides KH? Why not shoot him a PM?
                  Let's take a guess here who posts more worthless threads in this forum, me or you...

                  Or hell, google it like I did. I'm sure one of those (or other) papers will shed some light on your problem.
                  I wouldn't have bothered posting to poly if Wikipedia and Google were giving me useful answers.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Al B. Sure! View Post


                    I appreciate the humility. I can't help you though. This is beyond undergrad stuff.
                    I wasn't expecting you to.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Kuciwalker View Post
                      I wasn't expecting you to.
                      So who did you expect to help you, then? Like I said, beyond KH, I would be surprised if anyone could. Why didn't you just PM him?
                      "Flutie was better than Kelly, Elway, Esiason and Cunningham." - Ben Kenobi
                      "I have nothing against Wilson, but he's nowhere near the same calibre of QB as Flutie. Flutie threw for 5k+ yards in the CFL." -Ben Kenobi

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Off the top of my head, Dauphin, DanS, loinburger (?), and pchang all have some chance of knowing information related to my question. I'm sure there are others.

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                        • #13
                          Lognormal is just a good-enough approximation for many purposes. It does a decent job of predicting returns over timescales of a few months, and (if you don't look too hard) is consistent with how markets trade. There is nothing intrinsically favored about it, other than the fact that it is mathematically tractable.
                          12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
                          Stadtluft Macht Frei
                          Killing it is the new killing it
                          Ultima Ratio Regum

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                          • #14
                            Sure, but it also seems like the distribution you have to assume if the log of the returns has finite variance - thus, something must be introducing infinite variance. Is it just the possibility of bankruptcy?

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Kuciwalker View Post
                              Sure, but it also seems like the distribution you have to assume if the log of the returns has finite variance
                              No.
                              12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
                              Stadtluft Macht Frei
                              Killing it is the new killing it
                              Ultima Ratio Regum

                              Comment

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