Are the very wealthy paying their share?

[Kuciwalker]

corruption, verification (of need and/or benefit), logistics... I could think about it for a few more seconds and maybe come up with some more if you want.

Those are really, really good arguments against conventional foreign aid, especially transfer payments to foreign governments.

Luckily, we already know of a form of foreign aid that is extremely effective: free trade and Western economic growth, the direct result of which is economic development and industrialization in the third world.

[Thorn]

While i appreciate the idealism expressed in this thread, I have to say being pragmatic, you can't just help anyone in the world, you need to help people who can help make the world a better place in the process too........ kind of Machiavellian but the only way we'll get real progress to a point that we can help "everyone."

[KrazyHorse]

As far as the "local positive externalities" **** that nye keeps blathering on about, the onus is on the person making all sorts of enormous claims as to the scale of fuzzily defined benefits to demonstrate some sort of empirical evidence. The State comprises >40% of the economy in the "mainstream" first world. That is an ENORMOUS amount of money to be shuttling around based on some nebulous idea that I derive a great benefit from people in Queens sending their kids to school.

[KrazyHorse]

Those are really, really good arguments against conventional foreign aid, especially transfer payments to foreign governments.

I'm in favor of transfer payments to individuals...

[Kuciwalker]

I'm in favor of transfer payments to individuals...

Of course.

[KrazyHorse]

You should look into it. Given the massive amounts involved. "Lost" taxation far exceeds international aid budgets (which made me think of asking the questions in the first place) - but the economics of it is pretty interesting in its own right.

It's an interesting subject, but I am worried that solid data is missing. In that environment, people's priors will have far more of an effect on anything I read than the truth will...

[Aeson]

If the world's distribution of material wealth were roughly similar to the US's, the justification would be that local allocation of tax revenues should generally result in less wasteful government spending.

That of course is not reality. (And not the topic anyways.) His statement that there is no efficiency benefit to spending the marginal dollar in the first world over the third applies to reality, not some hypothetical utopia. (At least I hope so. Kuci doesn't seem delusional to me.) In that reality there are inefficiencies involved with sending money to third world countries and that means simply sending money to those who are worst off is not going to give useful conclusions. (In general, those who are worst off are worst off because of corrupt and oppressive regimes. Sending money into that environment is likely going to worsen things, not help. Even sending food/supplies can backfire.)

[Al B. Sure!]

I'm in favor of transfer payments to individuals...

Jordans on my feet but my baby got nothing to eat

[KrazyHorse]

aeson

I have no idea what you're on about here, but the point as I read it was:

1) There is some efficiency benefit
2) The marginal value of a dollar to the very poor Third Worlder is worth so much more than it is to the relatively well-fed, secure, healthy, educated, pampered First Worlder that (1) is massively dwarfed

[KrazyHorse]

Jordans on my feet but my baby got nothing to eat

Given that you can't even run your own life, it's funny to watch you criticize the way others run theirs.

[Al B. Sure!]

aeson

I have no idea what you're on about here, but the point as I read it was:

1) There is some efficiency benefit
2) The marginal value of a dollar to the very poor Third Worlder is worth so much more than it is to the relatively well-fed, secure, healthy, educated, pampered First Worlder that (1) is massively dwarfed

What's the homicide rate in US cities relative to other countries? And if you factor out the rich US urban areas and just take the poorest demographics, what is it relative to the Third World?

How likely is a 20 year old black male in North Philadelphia to get murdered relative to a Bangladeshi?

[Thorn]

What's the homicide rate in US cities relative to other countries? And if you factor out the rich US urban areas and just take the poorest demographics, what is it relative to the Third World?

How likely is a 20 year old black male in North Philadelphia to get murdered relative to a Bangladeshi?

depends on your definition of murder, in 3rd world most murder (in quantity) is goverment done as their are limited access to firearms...

[KrazyHorse]

What's the homicide rate in US cities relative to other countries? And if you factor out the rich US urban areas and just take the poorest demographics, what is it relative to the Third World?

How likely is a 20 year old black male in North Philadelphia to get murdered relative to a Bangladeshi?

1) Focusing on intentional homicide is missing the forest for the trees. Security and safety is impacted a lot more by natural disasters, war, accidents etc. On all of these First Worlders are in much better shape than Third Worlders
2) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate Africa and Central America AS A WHOLE stand up pretty well even against ****holes like Philly
3) People who choose high-risk occupations and high-risk places to live must not value their safety very much. There are numerous options for living outside the ghetto which don't cost very much more (try a smaller town). They have the resources to make a different decision, and don't

[Thorn]

Usuallly attachements (family, crime) stop poor people from picking up and going somewhere else... and washing dishes or something temporarly to get yourself settled.... you can hitch a ride for transportation... and there is opportunity...

[KrazyHorse]

I'm not arguing with their choice; their revealed preference is to run the risks they run, and I'm fine with that choice. However, it means that I am less concerned with those risks than I am with the risks run by somebody who doesn't have a choice to leave his murderous country because of immigration restrictions or a lack of money.