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Problems with group differences

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  • Problems with group differences

    I'm not so sure that the racial achievement gaps are 50%+ genetic any more. There are several reasons for this, two things have been gnawing at me for the past two years I've dealt with HBD. To come clean another motivation for re-examining the position is that it is rather inconvenient for the interpretation of Christianity I'm leaning towards being true (this of course means I've added a new bias to my evaluation of the data).

    1. Height is a polygenic trait with high heritability, it is in some respects a problem similar to IQ. Changes one could have inferred as unlikely if going by interpreting twin studies on the matter (twin studies are a major but far from the only argument against the classical nurture hypothesis) have been observed over the years, example is perhaps the change of height in the Japanese. But this case really brings forth a strong possibility that the story with height is much more complex than meets the eye.

    2. Israeli IQ is too low. Even if we take the idea that the dummies went to Israel while the talented went to the US. A grave simplification considering the composition of early Eastern European Jewish migration to the US. Now even taking into account the well known phenomena of IQs being lower a point or so in regions closer to the equator of people of the same stock due to the difference in parasite load the numbers still come short. Yes Askenazi Jews are not the only people in Israel but even taking Lynn's figure of 103 for Israeli Askenazi Jews seems to be to far away from the figures of the population in the US which range from 108 up to 113.

    Is Israel still going to make gains in the Flynn effect that will bring them into line with US Askenazis? Seems unlikely, Israel is a pretty good place to live if one is Jewish.




    Overall I'm currently of the opinion that the racial gaps deserve further investigation but that all the currently put forward explanations fall short and are unsatisfactory.

    Let me however emphasise that based on current trends and data I'm quite confident that racial gaps will not close in the next 50 or so years, unless there is a breakthrough on this subject.
    Last edited by Heraclitus; January 31, 2011, 14:28.
    Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
    The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
    The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila

  • #2
    Can I ask why you think it's important?
    I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
    - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Kidicious View Post
      Can I ask why you think it's important?
      You mean why I bothered posting this? I guess since I'm well known for racialist positions here talking about any change in such opinions I may have will probably reduce the misunderstandings in future debates I take part in.

      If you mean its clash with my religion, I rather not go into that here, suffice it to say some aspects of HBD don't seem to facilitate helping to make me become a good Christian.

      If you mean why 1. and 2. are relevant? Height is a trait for which a heredeterian case can be made that is nearly as strong for IQ made using some similar methods, there is some really surprising data that suggests the picture is much less clear than previously thought (Steven Hsu admits that this makes him more willing to think about nonheredeterian hypothesis, but just to be clear this doesn't make the classical nurture argument more likley).

      2. is in my estimation a case where a major difference that shouldn't be there according to currently known environmental and likley genetic factors, but its still stubbornly there. Which opens the possibility a similar situation might be possible as an explanation for part of some of the other gaps on the scale of a few IQ points, which could add up to change the picture quite a bit.
      Last edited by Heraclitus; January 31, 2011, 14:35.
      Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
      The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
      The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Heraclitus View Post
        some aspects of HBD don't seem to facilitate helping to make me become a good Christian.
        Why? Does it clash with the Bible?
        I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
        - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

        Comment


        • #5
          Okay...

          1) You're doing it again. HBD? I google that term and I get **** like Happy Birthday, Hypophosphatemic Bone Disease, Hemoglobin--Delta Locus (don't know how that last one makes any sense)... I guess Human Bio-Diversity? You can't just say abbreviations like that and expect anyone to know what the hell you're talking about (saying 'I've dealt with my racial ****' would have been more meaningful). You're obsessed with a very small specialty that most people know nothing about and have absolutely no interest in... which brings me to #2...

          2) Why do you think this is important? Why do you think any of this such and such group tends towards IQ's of X whereas such and such other group tends towards IQ's of Y means much of anything? Only thing it could mean is that one ethnic group is superior to another in a measure that you think is clearly very important... which opens up the door to racism.
          "Flutie was better than Kelly, Elway, Esiason and Cunningham." - Ben Kenobi
          "I have nothing against Wilson, but he's nowhere near the same calibre of QB as Flutie. Flutie threw for 5k+ yards in the CFL." -Ben Kenobi

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          • #6
            Has he ever said anything actually racist?

            edit: I can accept that he has a religous interest in it although I'm interested in what that is.
            I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
            - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

            Comment

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