High price of Darwinism by Michael Vassar

[Asher]

Don't forget about all those Black Riders chasing down the nice white folk on their walks through the forest.

[Asher]

Elves, Dwarves and Hobbits are not humans. They have completely separate origins and can't interbreed (except Humans and Elves and even this has only happened a time or two in all of the history of Middle Earth and might be more a sign of a miracle than genuine genetic compatibility). Calling them White is like calling Orcs non-White, it makes no sense. By that logic Neanderthals could be called White.

Hobbits might be just a weird kind of human, since their origins are not described and humans live side by side with hobbits in some settlements.

And even if that was so Smeagol (latter Gollum) and Sauroman are plenty evil as where the fallen Numenorians. All of them where plenty White.

I'm referring to the Evil Men, not the other races.

[Heraclitus]

The Evil Men sided with The Enemy. Guess their skin color and/or eye characteristics.

I'm referring to the Evil Men, not the other races.

The men of the South/East where absolutely not characterised as evil, but misled and even bound by a sense of honor. Also they are described as swarthy, which can be interpreted as anything from Black to Mediterranean White.

You also completely ignore that many Numenorians sided with Sauron and his predecessor long before the South/Eastern people.

Don't forget about all those Black Riders chasing down the nice white folk on their walks through the forest.

There is no reference to Nazgûl's appearance before they where twisted by Sauron's influence and their own vices. This is like saying the charcater of Star Wars is racist because Darth Vader's armour is black.

Black is associated with evil and White with good in Western culture, it has nothing to do with skin colour, deal with it.

[Heraclitus]

DP

[Tupac Shakur]

You also completely ignore that many Numenorians sided with Sauron and his predecessor long before the South/Eastern people.

Yes, the so-called "Black" Númenóreans...

[Heraclitus]

You also completely ignore that many Numenorians sided with Sauron and his predecessor long before the South/Eastern people.

Yes, the so-called "Black" Númenóreans...

Black as in evil. Not black as in dark skinned. They are described as fair skinned.

Black is associated with evil and White with good in Western culture, it has nothing to do with skin colour, deal with it.

[Tupac Shakur]

So your defense is that Western culture is inherently racist? I don't disagree, but I fail to see how that excuses Tolkien's racism.

[giblets]

I believe that the same phenomena accounts for some of the decline in per-capita significant scientific output which has kept the last century’s real scientific development moving in a roughly linear manner despite exponentially increasing inputs.

How does he measure "significant scientific output"? And if the easier to make discoveries come earlier, then you should expect to see inputs per discovery increasing over time.

[Heraclitus]

I think that man is naturally egalitarian, as they don't wish to be dominated. Darwin and Neitzche are exceptions. So I don't think intelligence is a moral worth.

Yes but the real dilemma presented by him is why treat humans any different from other animals/beings. I assume you being Christian would say their possession of a soul is the reason?

[Elok]

Wow, you really love indulging trolls, don't you?

[Kidlicious]

Yes but the real dilemma presented by him is why treat humans any different from other animals/beings. I assume you being Christian would say their possession of a soul is the reason?

Yes, of course. I'm not saying that social norms are morals, but society considers them such. Only the highly intelligent will consider intelligence a moral.

[Heraclitus]

So your defense is that Western culture is inherently racist? I don't disagree, but I fail to see how that excuses Tolkien's racism.

Well I hope you can agree he is no more racist than Western culture in general.

Its not Westerns culture's fault that Blacks happen to have very dark brown skin that is usually described as black, racist. And believe it or not the notions go back to a time when Europeans had no idea that people with skin that dark existed. Also Darkness or the colour Black had negative connotations in many other cultures way before contact with Westerners.

Burned things turn black, the night is black, ect. And if any other colour except green was used they would have ended up "offending" some other group. The possible exception to this is green or blue, but even then you would offend green and blue eyed people (the vast majority of "Whites" have brown eyes) people and would have to work against a natural bias all humans have for liking those two colours (green land and blue sky is universally appealing for a reason).

Was Egyptian culture racist against Whites because White was associated with death and the desert?

Wow, you really love indulging trolls, don't you?

Yeah. Feeding the hungry of my own kind and all that.

[Tupac Shakur]

Well I hope you can agree he is no more racist than Western culture in general.

Yes, we can agree on that, which makes Tolkien really ****ing racist.

[Tupac Shakur]

How to tell a good vs evil story without being racist...



Evil black man leading a bunch of evil white troops.

[giblets]

Burned things turn black, the night is black, ect. And if any other colour except green was used they would have ended up "offending" some other group. The possible exception to this is green or blue, but even then you would offend green and blue eyed people (the vast majority of "Whites" have brown eyes)

Wait, who are the orange people? Who are the purple people?