Does anyone else yearn for a society based on inequality?

[Aeson]

Such a thing would cost more than my neighbors house ...

... actually I splurged and got a pretty nice one because Paypal is still holding my money hostage and I needed a better camera anyways.

[Dr Strangelove]

I'm not saying they don't care at all, I'm just saying that they have a stronger interest in taking care of themselves rather than society as a whole.

Would you then ban the wealthy who export jobs in order to boost their profits? How about people in the financial industries who engage in dubious practices like "shorting" or foreclosing loans that aren't overdue? What about corporate polluters? How about the GOP?

Oh I'm well aware of this. This is the same basic argument I use for immigration restriction, a people do have a right to decide with whom they want to live in a country, I firmly support secession and the right to leave emigrate without harassment from one's native country remember?

Would you have supported the right of the Confederate States to secede in order to preserve the right to own slaves? Would you have supported the right of the Palestinians in the 1940's to exclude Jews from immigrating to Israel? Does Israel have the right to eject Israeli Arabs? What about immigrants who have labored faithfully at minimum wage in a country for years, deacades or even generations?

[MRT144]

[Heraclitus]

Would you have supported the right of the Confederate States to secede in order to preserve the right to own slaves?

Yes, if the right of slaves to emigrate was respected. Which was not the case.

Would you have supported the right of the Palestinians in the 1940's to exclude Jews from immigrating to Israel?

Yes. A foreign Empire like that of the British had no right to determine others should give up their land, and they are under no obligation to accept immigrants who plan on creating a new state in the territory if they don't want to. That would be a pretty huge loophole to leave in the system otherwise!

Does Israel have the right to eject Israeli Arabs?

No. Where did you get the idea I believe the state should have the right to pick and choose among its existing citizens? Its citizens are the ones who I argue should have the right to pick and choose a country.

What about immigrants who have labored faithfully at minimum wage in a country for years, deacades or even generations?

Yes, they would have a right to secede or emigrate. It btw doesn't matter if the immigrants aren't well integrated or if they are perhaps unemployed, this doesn't eliminate their right to self-determination.

[Dr Strangelove]

Yes, if the right of slaves to emigrate was respected. Which was not the case.

Ummmmm, slavery and the right to emigrate are pretty much exclusive.

Yes. A foreign Empire like that of the British had no right to determine others should give up their land, and they are under no obligation to accept immigrants who plan on creating a new state in the territory if they don't want to. That would be a pretty huge loophole to leave in the system otherwise!

So you're pro-Hamas?

Yes, they would have a right to secede or emigrate. It btw doesn't matter if the immigrants aren't well integrated or if they are perhaps unemployed, this doesn't eliminate their right to self-determination.

So, for instance, the Turks in Germany have the right to either go back to Turkey or form their own Turkish state within Germany?

[giblets]

Its citizens are the ones who I argue should have the right to pick and choose a country.

Hold on. What if someone living in somewhere in Asia chooses Slovenia, but Slovenia tells them "no, you can't come in because we don't want brown people." Has their right to pick and choose a country been infringed?

[MRT144]

[giblets]

I don't get it.

[MRT144]

I don't get it.

Thats what heracletus is.

[Heraclitus]

Ummmmm, slavery and the right to emigrate are pretty much exclusive.

Not really. Many people would consent to being owned by another if that meant a warm bed, hot meal and a rudimentary guarantee of medical care and a pension plan.

So you're pro-Hamas?

No. The fact that Palestinian land was taken does not mean that its wrong for Jews to want to keep the land they have today.

So, for instance, the Turks in Germany have the right to either go back to Turkey or form their own Turkish state within Germany?

Yes, this seems a straightforward conclusion. Why does it seems surprising to you?

Hold on. What if someone living in somewhere in Asia chooses Slovenia, but Slovenia tells them "no, you can't come in because we don't want brown people." Has their right to pick and choose a country been infringed?

No. People have the right not to be stopped from leaving but no one is under any obligation to take them in. That would lead to (among other things) ridiculous results of career criminals constantly hopping between countries. This would be a poor way to get rich (I didn't say anything about the right to keep property when leaving) but it would be a way to make a living.

Sure one might imagine a extreme case of a country that offered blanket residence to all criminals, but who in the world would trade with such a country? Which country would allow visitors or immigrants from such a land? Such a territory would quickly become more of a prison colony than anything else.

[giblets]

No. People have the right not to be stopped from leaving but no one is under any obligation to take them in. That would lead to (among other things) ridiculous results of career criminals constantly hopping between countries. This would be a poor way to get rich (I didn't say anything about the right to keep property when leaving) but it would be a way to make a living.

Sure one might imagine a extreme case of a country that offered blanket residence to all criminals, but who in the world would trade with such a country? Which country would allow visitors or immigrants from such a land? Such a territory would quickly become more of a prison colony than anything else.

Please explain this. Why is it evil to stop people from leaving but okay to stop people from coming in? Either way you're using coercion to stop people from crossing an imaginary line.

[DaShi]

Not really. Many people would consent to being owned by another if that meant a warm bed, hot meal and a rudimentary guarantee of medical care and a pension plan.

Many? Show us a least 10 million that would.

[Heraclitus]

Please explain this. Why is it evil to stop people from leaving but okay to stop people from coming in? Either way you're using coercion to stop people from crossing an imaginary line.

Think in terms of freedom of association. I don't have the right to spend a evening chatting up Tyra Banks if she doesn't want my company, but I certainly have the right to deny her my company even if she wishes it very badly.

[DaShi]

I can buy a house next to hers if I want. and watch her through a powerful telescope

[Heraclitus]

Many? Show us a least 10 million that would.

Why 10 million? To clarify when I wrote this:

Not really. Many people would consent to being owned by another if that meant a warm bed, hot meal and a rudimentary guarantee of medical care and a pension plan.

I was arguing against this:

Ummmmm, slavery and the right to emigrate are pretty much exclusive.

Not the specific example of the Confederacy. The plantation economy as it was in the old South would not have survived the right of slaves to emigrate unmolested.

However tens of thousands of people would have remained in willing slavery and some of their children would also choose slavery instead of moving to other countries.