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  • WaPo leaks results of Pentagon DADT study

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...rc=nl_polalert

    A Pentagon study group has concluded that the military can lift the ban on gays serving openly in uniform with only minimal and isolated incidents of risk to the current war efforts, according to two people familiar with a draft of the report, which is due to President Obama on Dec. 1.

    More than 70 percent of respondents to a survey sent to active-duty and reserve troops over the summer said the effect of repealing the "don't ask, don't tell" policy would be positive, mixed or nonexistent, said two sources familiar with the document. The survey results led the report's authors to conclude that objections to openly gay colleagues would drop once troops were able to live and serve alongside them.

    One source, who has read the report in full, summarized its findings in a series of conversations this week. The source declined to state his position on whether to lift the ban, insisting it did not matter. He said he felt compelled to share the information out of concern that groups opposed to ending the ban would mischaracterize the findings. The long, detailed and nuanced report will almost certainly be used by opponents and supporters of repeal legislation to bolster their positions in what is likely to be a heated and partisan congressional debate.

    President Obama has vowed to end the ban. Senior Pentagon officials requested the survey to address areas in which a repeal might cause conflicts that could hinder the military's ability to fight.

    "There are challenges here, and we want the time so we can make the process of implementation as smooth as possible," said a second person who was briefed on the report but had not read it.

    Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates, Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Mike Mullen, and uniformed and civilian leaders of the four military branches received copies of the draft report late last week.

    The document totals about 370 pages and is divided into two sections. The first section explores whether repealing "don't ask, don't tell" would harm unit readiness or morale. It cites the findings of a survey sent over the summer to 400,000 active-duty and reserve troops, a separate questionnaire sent to about 150,000 military spouses, the responses submitted to an anonymous online drop box seeking comments, and responses from focus-group participants.

    The second part of the report presents a plan for ending enforcement of the ban. It is not meant to serve as the military's official instruction manual on the issue but could be used if military leaders agreed, one of the sources said.

    Among other questions, the survey asked if having an openly gay person in a unit would have an effect in an intense combat situation. Although a majority of respondents signaled no strong objections, a significant minority is opposed to serving alongside openly gay troops. About 40 percent of the Marine Corps is concerned about lifting the ban, according to one of the people familiar with the report.

    A Defense Department spokesman declined to comment for this article.

    House and Senate versions of the annual defense authorization bill include language that would repeal the ban, but it is not clear whether lawmakers will proceed with the measure during the lame-duck session slated to begin next week. At least 10 senators of both parties have said they will not decide how to vote until they read the final report.

    In addition to political jockeying by groups for and against the ban, a Republican gay rights group has challenged the constitutionality of the policy in court. Its legal push led a federal judge to briefly block the military from enforcing the ban. In court papers filed Wednesday, the Justice Department said the Supreme Court should allow the Pentagon to continue enforcing it.

    Gen. James Amos, the Marine Corps commandant, said last weekend that ending the policy in the middle of two wars would be risky for Marines.

    "There is nothing more intimate than young men and young women - and when you talk of infantry, we're talking about our young men - lying out, sleeping alongside of one another and sharing death, fear and loss of brothers," Amos told reporters. "I don't know what the effect of that will be on cohesion. I mean, that's what we're looking at. It's unit cohesion. It's combat effectiveness."

    Mullen, traveling in Australia at the time, publicly rebuked Amos for expressing his concerns to news media before the report's release.

    Adm. Gary Roughead, the chief of naval operations, said Tuesday that he had received a draft of the report, but he would not discuss its contents.

    "I think it's important for me to look at all of the information, all of the attitudes that are in there, because my job is to make recommendations," he said during a meeting with reporters and editors at The Washington Post. "All of the views need to be used to inform the input that I make."

    Despite the predictions or fears of groups for and against repealing the ban, the report does not anticipate a large "coming out" by gay men and lesbians serving in uniform, said the person who had read the full draft.

    Among several recommendations, the report urges an end to the military ban on sodomy between consenting adults regardless of what Congress or the federal courts might do about "don't ask, don't tell," the source said.

    The report also concludes that gay troops should not be put into a special class for equal-opportunity or discrimination purposes, the individual said. The recommendation is based on feedback the study group obtained from gay troops and same-sex partners who said they do not want a special classification, according to the source. Gay troops were encouraged to participate in the survey and to submit comments to the anonymous online drop box.

    The report recommends few, if any, changes to policy covering military housing and benefits, because the military must abide by the federal Defense of Marriage Act, which does not recognize same-sex marriage. Objections by troops who do not want to room or shower with openly gay troops should be handled case-by-case by commanders and should be scrutinized, the source said.

    If "don't ask, don't tell" is repealed, a review should occur one year after afterward, the report's authors recommend.

    In February, Gates tapped Defense Department general counsel Jeh Johnson and Army Gen. Carter Ham to lead the study group. The team met privately in September with the same-sex partners of active-duty and reserve troops and is in regular contact with groups for and against lifting the ban, according to people familiar with the meetings.

    Johnson and Carter wrote most of the report, which is undergoing final edits before it reaches the White House.

    "I will look at it very carefully," Obama said last week.
    Tutto nel mondo è burla

  • #2


    Now show some balls Obama and get it repealed!
    “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
    - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Boris Godunov View Post
      More than 70 percent
      Wait, is this supposed to be a good figure? All I see in that figure is an "almost 30 percent" just itching to produce a few Matthew Shepards per year. Just hunky-dory.
      Unbelievable!

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Darius871 View Post
        Wait, is this supposed to be a good figure? All I see in that figure is an "almost 30 percent" just itching to produce a few Matthew Shepards per year. Just hunky-dory.
        The survey results led the report's authors to conclude that objections to openly gay colleagues would drop once troops were able to live and serve alongside them.
        My guess is a lot of the opposition was not so vehement as to indicate this would be such a major concern.
        Tutto nel mondo è burla

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui View Post


          Now show some balls Obama and get it repealed!
          Why not try convincing some of those Republicans you support to back repeal? They're the major roadblock, after all.
          Tutto nel mondo è burla

          Comment


          • #6
            You would think they would see it as win-win: with any luck a whole bunch of brown people and a whole bunch of gays will end up being killed
            12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
            Stadtluft Macht Frei
            Killing it is the new killing it
            Ultima Ratio Regum

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Boris Godunov View Post
              Why not try convincing some of those Republicans you support to back repeal? They're the major roadblock, after all.
              Who else is gonna finish work on the gay bomb after all.
              I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
              For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Boris Godunov View Post
                Why not try convincing some of those Republicans you support to back repeal? They're the major roadblock, after all.
                And yet it was the black churches what came out in droves to elect Obama in 08 that were most instrumental in holding to homophobic positions. Not just the repubs but core components of his base.
                "Just puttin on the foil" - Jeff Hanson

                “In a democracy, I realize you don’t need to talk to the top leader to know how the country feels. When I go to a dictatorship, I only have to talk to one person and that’s the dictator, because he speaks for all the people.” - Jimmy Carter

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe View Post
                  And yet it was the black churches what came out in droves to elect Obama in 08 that were most instrumental in holding to homophobic positions. Not just the repubs but core components of his base.
                  What? Black churches were "most instrumental" in holding to what positions? And how were they instrumental?

                  You're not trying to continue the stupid "Black people caused Proposition 8 to pass" line of reasoning, are you?
                  Tutto nel mondo è burla

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    An actrual rebuttal of black churches involvement in voting drives and the resulting prop 8 vote would be appreciated rather than a simple BS comment.

                    As for GOP involvement to repeal DADT, that would be being spearheaded by lawyers of the Logcabin repubs.

                    So in recap, we have a sizeable core constituency of the president that exit polls indicated voted (in record numbers) against gay friendly intitiatives, a President that holds to traditional definition of marriage, argues against injuctions of DADT, and an opposition party attempting to make the case in SCOTUS for stopping DADT.

                    But we are to believe the president blameless in all of this and that the opposition party boogeyman are the blame.
                    "Just puttin on the foil" - Jeff Hanson

                    “In a democracy, I realize you don’t need to talk to the top leader to know how the country feels. When I go to a dictatorship, I only have to talk to one person and that’s the dictator, because he speaks for all the people.” - Jimmy Carter

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Yeah, that's some wierd narrative you've got there, Ogie.

                      -Arrian
                      grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

                      The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe View Post
                        An actrual rebuttal of black churches involvement in voting drives and the resulting prop 8 vote would be appreciated rather than a simple BS comment.
                        Wait, you're making a claim, and you expect me to prove you wrong? Are you really that stupid?

                        Why are black churches a different constituency than non-black churches? The supporters of Prop 8 were churches, regardless of the race of the church members. You do know that the main backer was the lily-white Mormon Church, right?

                        African-Americans are statistically more likely to be religious than the rest of the population. Even so, Obama did not support Proposition 8. This is just a red herring to try and deflect from the fact that the single major obstacle to DADT repeal is in Congress, and it's from the Republicans.

                        As for GOP involvement to repeal DADT, that would be being spearheaded by lawyers of the Logcabin repubs.
                        Which has what to do with Congressional GOPers? Do you think the elected GOP gives the Log Cabiners even a modicum of respect, much less listen to what they say?

                        So in recap, we have a sizeable core constituency of the president that exit polls indicated voted (in record numbers) against gay friendly intitiatives, a President that holds to traditional definition of marriage, argues against injuctions of DADT, and an opposition party attempting to make the case in SCOTUS for stopping DADT.
                        This isn't about gay marriage, you dolt.

                        I'm not thrilled with Obama's tactics wrt to DADT repeal, but there certainly is logical merit behind the idea that it can only be repealed by Congress, since it's an act of Congress. And I'm sure you'd be among the first to howl bloody murder were a Democratic Administration to just allow a lower court ruling to stand that essentially dictated military recruitment policy, so stop being a hypocrite just to invent an excuse to attack Obama.

                        But we are to believe the president blameless in all of this and that the opposition party boogeyman are the blame.
                        Who said anything about him being blameless? You're quite fond of the false dichotomies.

                        I asked a self-professed Republican to actually try and convince Republicans to support repeal, since their support is key, esp. given the election results.

                        How many GOP reps have you contacted to urge support of repeal, Ogie?
                        Tutto nel mondo è burla

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Boris Godunov View Post
                          Wait, you're making a claim, and you expect me to prove you wrong? Are you really that stupid?

                          Why are black churches a different constituency than non-black churches? The supporters of Prop 8 were churches, regardless of the race of the church members. You do know that the main backer was the lily-white Mormon Church, right?
                          LOL. Of course the Mormon church canard. Yep they have so many members in CA and so much influence they had to be the THE LARGEST EVAH contributor to Prop 8 passage. Are you serious????

                          African-Americans are statistically more likely to be religious than the rest of the population.

                          Thus by extension more likely to be in support of Prop 8.
                          Translation - you were right Ogie

                          Even so, Obama did not support Proposition 8. This is just a red herring to try and deflect from the fact that the single major obstacle to DADT repeal is in Congress, and it's from the Republicans.
                          Ummm who sets the agenda for legislative? That typically is the perogative of the majority party, which unless my memory is failing was held inboth haouses by the democratic party and will be until January. The fact that this hasn't even been adressed is which partiy's fault? Furthermore, the fact that the president chose to block and otherwise avoid the injunctions in order to gain fig leaf cover by getting the legislative to repeal DADT is whose fault again?


                          Which has what to do with Congressional GOPers? Do you think the elected GOP gives the Log Cabiners even a modicum of respect, much less listen to what they say?
                          This is a first. Now the issue is all about congress critters where before it was simply getting some GOPers to help its repeal. Given the easy path to repeal was provided by the actions of the Logcabin GOP and all Obama had to do was comply I fail to see why this is a referendum on the GOP congress members, given the current agenda as set by the DEMS doesn't even address the issue.


                          This isn't about gay marriage, you dolt.
                          Of course not, but then similar instances of support on related issues of important to the gay community apparently is beyond your grasp and how that might possibly correspond to motive and levels of support. I'll tone it down a little for you.

                          I'm not thrilled with Obama's tactics wrt to DADT repeal, but there certainly is logical merit behind the idea that it can only be repealed by Congress, since it's an act of Congress. And I'm sure you'd be among the first to howl bloody murder were a Democratic Administration to just allow a lower court ruling to stand that essentially dictated military recruitment policy, so stop being a hypocrite just to invent an excuse to attack Obama.
                          Actually wrt to this issue as commander in chief he has much leeway. One could argue codes of conduct etc. being the purview of the legislative but as commander in chief an argumeent can be made that his is the ultimate authority wrt Defense Force Dispostion and makeup.


                          Who said anything about him being blameless? You're quite fond of the false dichotomies.
                          No I simply find blaming the GOP congressmen a bit of a stretch considering the matter has not even been broached.

                          I asked a self-professed Republican to actually try and convince Republicans to support repeal, since their support is key, esp. given the election results.

                          How many GOP reps have you contacted to urge support of repeal, Ogie?
                          Given I don't qualify as the prerequisite is to be a Republican, I ask the same of you who presumably are not a republican, How many GOP reps have you contacted? Or more to the point how many Dems have you contacted to get the item on the agenda in the first place?
                          Last edited by Ogie Oglethorpe; November 11, 2010, 13:07.
                          "Just puttin on the foil" - Jeff Hanson

                          “In a democracy, I realize you don’t need to talk to the top leader to know how the country feels. When I go to a dictatorship, I only have to talk to one person and that’s the dictator, because he speaks for all the people.” - Jimmy Carter

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Ogie, I do believe the claim about the Mormons has to do with funding for the ads and whatnot.

                            Do you have any cites for the % of black church-going voters who supported/opposed the measure? If not, this is all conjecture.

                            I was also under the impression that the Dems tried to get DADT repealed as part of an appropriations bill but failed to get it to the floor (fillibustered).

                            -Arrian
                            grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

                            The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Arrian View Post
                              Ogie, I do believe the claim about the Mormons has to do with funding for the ads and whatnot.
                              As an organization the LDS church cotnributed $180000 to passage of proposition 8. Not that much.

                              Do you have any cites for the % of black church-going voters who supported/opposed the measure? If not, this is all conjecture.
                              Widely reported

                              http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/06/AR2008110603880.html

                              I was also under the impression that the Dems tried to get DADT repealed as part of an appropriations bill but failed to get it to the floor (fillibustered).

                              -Arrian
                              It was widely reported as being a DADT filibuster while the real issues if I read correctly were killing the DREAM act portion of the bill.
                              "Just puttin on the foil" - Jeff Hanson

                              “In a democracy, I realize you don’t need to talk to the top leader to know how the country feels. When I go to a dictatorship, I only have to talk to one person and that’s the dictator, because he speaks for all the people.” - Jimmy Carter

                              Comment

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