I have officially changed my position on the liberal arts in universities

[Asher]

They do deserve to stay, and all people should be required to take some philosophy, history, arts, etc no matter what they study.

Arguing about morality with Kuciwalker today has shown to me that what I thought were universal understandings are anything but.

[Al B. Sure!]

They do deserve to stay, and all people should be required to take some philosophy, history, arts, etc no matter what they study.

Arguing about morality with Kuciwalker today has shown to me that what I thought were universal understandings are anything but.

Kuciwalker is good for that. I told you he's not human. Everything must be quantifiable for him.


Universities originally were not just for training people into a profession but to develop well-rounded and informed individuals.

[Elok]

Sadly, my experience trying to get a job with a liberal arts degree has turned me around on that subject. Not as strongly as you were, but we definitely shouldn't be spending tax money to have people major in Uselessness 101.

[Asher]

This is the quote that did it for me:

Asher, if your idea of morality can't answer the question of something like "how much should we spend on medical care", then how useful is it?

[Asher]

Sadly, my experience trying to get a job with a liberal arts degree has turned me around on that subject. Not as strongly as you were, but we definitely shouldn't be spending tax money to have people major in Uselessness 101.

I agree majoring in the liberal arts remains useless. But it's useful in teaching people the basics of humanity.

[Al B. Sure!]

I doubt Asher was suggesting people should study Philosophy as a major... but that they should take a philosophy class or two, an arts class, a history class, etc. as part of their electives.

Actually, most universities have a core curriculum in which most majors have to take at least one philosophy class, one art class, one social sciences class, etc. along with the classes that are related to their major.

[Al B. Sure!]

This is the quote that did it for me:

Asher, if your idea of morality can't answer the question of something like "how much should we spend on medical care", then how useful is it?

Did he also discuss how any appropriate moral decision must take into account the net effect on the utility of the greatest number?

[GePap]

Sadly, my experience trying to get a job with a liberal arts degree has turned me around on that subject. Not as strongly as you were, but we definitely shouldn't be spending tax money to have people major in Uselessness 101.

I know many people who got liberal arts degrees making six figures. Perhaps its the kind of jobs you are looking for that are the problem, or what you are willing to do. Also, don't underestimate the utter terribleness of the job market for over two years and its role in it being hard to find a job.

[Elok]

Universities originally were not just for training people into a profession but to develop well-rounded and informed individuals.

Originally, perhaps, but you should bear in mind the pernicious infection of postmodernism which, if actually believed, would utterly invalidate everything else the student learned. That stuff is like Teflon for the brain. I strongly suspect that if a modern disciple of Lit Crit were put in direct physical contact with a mathematician, both would violently explode in a burst of energy and radiation.

[Elok]

I know many people who got liberal arts degrees making six figures. Perhaps its the kind of jobs you are looking for that are the problem, or what you are willing to do. Also, don't underestimate the utter terribleness of the job market for over two years and its role in it being hard to find a job.

Did their liberal arts degrees actually help them to obtain their jobs, and if so, were said jobs outside of academia?

[Asher]

All of the people I know with liberal arts degrees are, by and large, far less successful than people with engineering/science degrees.

I work with a lot of arts degree people, who are "product managers" at work. They earn about half of what the average developer makes, but boy do they ever feel important.

[Hauldren Collider]

They must not be helping as many people. By going into a more successful career, you produce more, which increases the amount of money the country can spend on healthcare, saving lives. Be an engineer, it's the moral thing to do!

[Asher]

They must not be helping as many people. By going into a more successful career, you produce more, which increases the amount of money the country can spend on healthcare, saving lives. Be an engineer, it's the moral thing to do!

This is clearly incorrect. More engineers --> less salary. Not everyone is smart enough to be an engineer, but everyone is smart enough to study English.

[Al B. Sure!]

All of the people I know with liberal arts degrees are, by and large, far less successful than people with engineering/science degrees.

I work with a lot of arts degree people, who are "product managers" at work. They earn about half of what the average developer makes, but boy do they ever feel important.

Well that's because while you code stuff, they are able to explain the relationship between Duchamp's rejection of 'retinal art' and Jean Baudrillard's second and third order simulacra

[Al B. Sure!]

They must not be helping as many people. By going into a more successful career, you produce more, which increases the amount of money the country can spend on healthcare, saving lives. Be an engineer, it's the moral thing to do!

Okay, Gordon Gecko.