Falling in Love...

[Dauphin]

So the tax will be raised....

Edit - Or are you saying dur to yourself?

[MikeH]

To myself. Friday afternoon syndrome.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Except the Child Benefit thing only hits the top 10% of earners - one would hope that they could afford to do without government handouts...

But not the top 10% bracket of disposable income. It doesn't affect the affluent childless as all.

[MOBIUS]

Well, the affluent childless aren't getting any child benefit are they?

Not to mention the fact that the affluent childless shouldn't have to be unnecessarily penalised just because they don't have kids. They are still helping to underwrite the child benefits of all the parents with kids, with their taxes, as it is...

[Saras]

It comforts me that ugly and vicious class warfare politics is universal wherever there is a representative democracy, and is not particular to my country

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Well, the affluent childless aren't getting any child benefit are they?

Not to mention the fact that the affluent childless shouldn't have to be unnecessarily penalised just because they don't have kids. They are still helping to underwrite the child benefits of all the parents with kids, with their taxes, as it is...

You're a Tory, Mobius. Accept it and be happy.

[C0ckney]

that's an interesting way of saying 'i've lost the argument'.

[Dauphin]

I agree with Laz, insofar as you have to have a susceptibility to voting Tory to like what the Coalition is doing more than you dislike.

[Cort Haus]

if you switch everyone in public sector final salary schemes to money purchase ones, leaving aside how unrealistic a proposal that is. then it seems to me that you're taking money from mostly low paid public sector workers, to subsidise the university education of middle class children. doesn't sound very fair to me.

We really need to knock the tired old meme on the head that says 'public sector workers - poor, private sector rich'

OK, so the public sector are now getting / about to get what the private sector has had for three years - job cuts and pay freezes, but generally, pay and conditions, including often-very-generous pension scenarios have not been unfavourable in many public sector jobs.

Funnily enough, I thought you suggested above that the NHS might manage some cuts. Well, it is, as my partner (in the NHS) is seeing the axe wielded all around her at the moment. We're just hoping that we won't both have lost our jobs in this crisis.

[Dauphin]

Public sector has been paid more than the private sector for many years. Some of the pension and other deals have been mindboggling.

I know one guy who wants to retire via redundancy - a forced redundancy for his years of service would mean they have to pay him two years salary. Needless to say he is last on the list for redundancy at his place of work.

There are also people in the public sector who have "retired" on about 60% final salary pensions and then been rehired at the same place on a temporary basis - two days a week. The net effect is they are getting the same pay as before, but only working two days a week.

[C0ckney]

I agree with Laz, insofar as you have to have a susceptibility to voting Tory to like what the Coalition is doing more than you dislike.

the argument i was referring to wasn't about whether or not mobius is a tory...

[C0ckney]

We really need to knock the tired old meme on the head that says 'public sector workers - poor, private sector rich'

OK, so the public sector are now getting / about to get what the private sector has had for three years - job cuts and pay freezes, but generally, pay and conditions, including often-very-generous pension scenarios have not been unfavourable in many public sector jobs.

Funnily enough, I thought you suggested above that the NHS might manage some cuts. Well, it is, as my partner (in the NHS) is seeing the axe wielded all around her at the moment. We're just hoping that we won't both have lost our jobs in this crisis.

i certainly agree that many public sector workers have it good, especially near the top. i also think that a smaller, leaner public sector is a necessary consequence of the crisis.

i was countering laz's suggestion that all public sector workers should be moved from final salary pension schemes to fund university eduction, notwithstanding his later 'clarification' of his position. i wanted to point out why it wouldn't be fair to take money from, for example hospital porters and dustmen, to subsidise the university education of middle class children.

i've already explained the reasons why i think the NHS should share in the pain, because i don't believe that it's more important than education, for example, and because the NHS budget has increased threefold in 12 years.

it certainly sucks to lose your job. it's happened to me, and other people on this forum in the last couple of years. if not for the financial crisis, i'd be a solicitor right now, probably pouring over the finer points of some easement from 1845 giving mr davis the right to walk over mrs jones' back garden or similar, but the financial crisis put pay to my training contract and then to my job. i was quite bitter about it at the time, but looking back, it gave me the opportunity to take my life in a completely different direction, and for that i'm thankful.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

the argument i was referring to wasn't about whether or not mobius is a tory...

I don't think anyone would seriously argue that point after reading this thread.

[MikeH]

Nope.

[Dauphin]

the argument i was referring to wasn't about whether or not mobius is a tory...

So was I....