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Andy Grove questioning free market

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  • Andy Grove questioning free market



    a part quoted below...

    Advanced Batteries

    There’s more at stake than exported jobs. With some technologies, both scaling and innovation take place overseas. Such is the case with advanced batteries. It has taken years and many false starts, but finally we are about to witness mass- produced electric cars and trucks. They all rely on lithium-ion batteries. What microprocessors are to computing, batteries are to electric vehicles. Unlike with microprocessors, the U.S. share of lithium-ion battery production is tiny.

    That’s a problem. A new industry needs an effective ecosystem in which technology knowhow accumulates, experience builds on experience, and close relationships develop between supplier and customer. The U.S. lost its lead in batteries 30 years ago when it stopped making consumer-electronics devices. Whoever made batteries then gained the exposure and relationships needed to learn to supply batteries for the more demanding laptop PC market, and after that, for the even more demanding automobile market. U.S. companies didn’t participate in the first phase and consequently weren’t in the running for all that followed. I doubt they will ever catch up.

    Job Creation

    Scaling isn’t easy. The investments required are much higher than in the invention phase. And funds need to be committed early, when not much is known about the potential market. Another example from Intel: The investment to build a silicon manufacturing plant in the 1970s was a few million dollars. By the early 1990s, the cost of the factories that would be able to produce the new Pentium chips in volume rose to several billion dollars. The decision to build these plants needed to be made years before we knew whether the Pentium chip would work or whether the market would be interested in it.

    Lessons we learned from previous missteps helped us. Years earlier, when Intel’s business consisted of making memory chips, we hesitated to add manufacturing capacity, not being sure about the market demand in years to come. Our Japanese competitors didn’t hesitate: They built the plants. When the demand for memory chips exploded, the Japanese roared into the U.S. market and Intel began its descent as a memory-chip supplier.

    Intel Experience

    Though steeled by that experience, I remember how afraid I was as I asked the Intel directors for authorization to spend billions of dollars for factories to make a product that didn’t exist at the time for a market we couldn’t size. Fortunately, they gave their OK even as they gulped. The bet paid off.

    My point isn’t that Intel was brilliant. The company was founded at a time when it was easier to scale domestically. For one thing, China wasn’t yet open for business. More importantly, the U.S. hadn’t yet forgotten that scaling was crucial to its economic future.

    How could the U.S. have forgotten? I believe the answer has to do with a general undervaluing of manufacturing -- the idea that as long as “knowledge work” stays in the U.S., it doesn’t matter what happens to factory jobs. It’s not just newspaper commentators who spread this idea.

    Offshore Production

    Consider this passage by Princeton University economist Alan S. Blinder: “The TV manufacturing industry really started here, and at one point employed many workers. But as TV sets became ‘just a commodity,’ their production moved offshore to locations with much lower wages. And nowadays the number of television sets manufactured in the U.S. is zero. A failure? No, a success.”

    I disagree. Not only did we lose an untold number of jobs, we broke the chain of experience that is so important in technological evolution. As happened with batteries, abandoning today’s “commodity” manufacturing can lock you out of tomorrow’s emerging industry.

    Our fundamental economic beliefs, which we have elevated from a conviction based on observation to an unquestioned truism, is that the free market is the best economic system -- the freer, the better. Our generation has seen the decisive victory of free-market principles over planned economies. So we stick with this belief, largely oblivious to emerging evidence that while free markets beat planned economies, there may be room for a modification that is even better.


    A good read, and I happen to agree with him.
    Socrates: "Good is That at which all things aim, If one knows what the good is, one will always do what is good." Brian: "Romanes eunt domus"
    GW 2013: "and juistin bieber is gay with me and we have 10 kids we live in u.s.a in the white house with obama"

  • #2
    People tend to support free markets until they start to perceive that things aren't going their way. ie - they're great when you're winning.

    Ironically, one way to get economic planning within capitalism is to have massive corporations that are so powerful that they can direct the kind of resources, investment and energy into long term planning that otherwise only states could manage.

    Personally, I suspect that humanity hasn't seen the end of state planning. The 20th century versions may not have been very successful, but apart from anything else, they lacked the sort of information-rich and capital-intensive economic environments that the future can provide. I believe that Marx inherently understood this when he argued that capitalism was a progressive engine that could ultimately deliver society to a level where socialism was a possibility.

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    • #3
      This all comes back to the fact that the US has no real industrial policy and we seem to just let the market decide while other countries aggressively pursue manufacturing in new industries with massive government incentives. We'll get locked out of each new industry like this unless we subsidize it and make it a priority to create local producers the way other countries have.
      Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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      • #4
        Because the US government never offers tax breaks to industries it wants to promote...
        “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
        - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Cort Haus View Post
          People tend to support free markets until they start to perceive that things aren't going their way. ie - they're great when you're winning.

          Ironically, one way to get economic planning within capitalism is to have massive corporations that are so powerful that they can direct the kind of resources, investment and energy into long term planning that otherwise only states could manage.

          Personally, I suspect that humanity hasn't seen the end of state planning. The 20th century versions may not have been very successful, but apart from anything else, they lacked the sort of information-rich and capital-intensive economic environments that the future can provide. I believe that Marx inherently understood this when he argued that capitalism was a progressive engine that could ultimately deliver society to a level where socialism was a possibility.
          It had to crash in order to rebuild, no matter how persuasive argument one could make, it was not the time for exploration of a different mix in the past... there is not too much going on right now either, but I have a slim hope that there will be turn in opinion, and such points as "scaling domestically" will start to be taken into account more seriously across the board, be it political, academic, and most importantly corporate.
          Socrates: "Good is That at which all things aim, If one knows what the good is, one will always do what is good." Brian: "Romanes eunt domus"
          GW 2013: "and juistin bieber is gay with me and we have 10 kids we live in u.s.a in the white house with obama"

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui View Post
            Because the US government never offers tax breaks to industries it wants to promote...
            Tax incentives
            If there is no sound in space, how come you can hear the lasers?
            ){ :|:& };:

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            • #7
              A national industrial policy goes way beyond stupid tax incentives.
              Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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              • #8
                Tax incentives actually manage to be worse than the general lowering of tax rates....
                urgh.NSFW

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