The Shrinking Middle Class in America

[Jaguar]

My friends were too cheap to go to ethnic stores, generally.

And still doesn't change the fact that my (US) friend who was too cheap to go to taco bell spent 6$ per day.

JM

Contrary to popular belief, McDonalds and such don't actually give you a good deal in terms of calories/dollar, except in comparison to other restaurants.

A Big Mac is 540 calories. That's precisely the number of calories in a half-dozen eggs. You can get a Big Mac for 3.50 or so, depending where you live, maybe as low as 2.99 or something. I last bought a half-dozen eggs for 59 cents.

[Boris Godunov]

And still doesn't change the fact that my (US) friend who was too cheap to go to taco bell spent 6$ per day.

Which doesn't change the fact that anecdotes aren't valid for establishing national trends.

And wait, $6/day? Sorry, I thought you were quibbling with the idea of costs being ~$2/meal, so I must have misunderstood you. The link I provided to Al showed that the average daily spend for Americans on food is $7.33.

Still, I think Jaguar is absolutely correct that you could spend much less than that, if you were frugal. My sister-in-law is the master of coupon clipping, and she's been known to walk out of a supermarket with items that would have regularly cost $150 but paid half that, or less. You can certainly cut down your food budget to just a few dollars per day if you prepare all of your meals at home without starving yourself. It probably won't be a glamorous diet, but it will be nutritionally viable. As was noted, Americans spending ~$7 day takes into account that almost all Americans purchase pricey nonessential foodstuffs that they could, theoretically, do without.

[Jon Miller]

Which doesn't change the fact that anecdotes aren't valid for establishing national trends.

And wait, $6/day? Sorry, I thought you were quibbling with the idea of costs being ~$2/meal, so I must have misunderstood you. The link I provided to Al showed that the average daily spend for Americans on food is $7.33.

Still, I think Jaguar is absolutely correct that you could spend much less than that, if you were frugal. My sister-in-law is the master of coupon clipping, and she's been known to walk out of a supermarket with items that would have regularly cost $150 but paid half that, or less. You can certainly cut down your food budget to just a few dollars per day if you prepare all of your meals at home without starving yourself. It probably won't be a glamorous diet, but it will be nutritionally viable. As was noted, Americans spending ~$7 day takes into account that almost all Americans purchase pricey nonessential foodstuffs that they could, theoretically, do without.

I was disagreeing with Jaguar that 2$ a day was reasonable.

I was pointing that even my friends who scrimp and saved and spent a lot of time looking for the best deals/etc would still spend 4$-6$ per day.

JM

[Al B. Sure!]

Contrary to popular belief, McDonalds and such don't actually give you a good deal in terms of calories/dollar, except in comparison to other restaurants.

A Big Mac is 540 calories. That's precisely the number of calories in a half-dozen eggs. You can get a Big Mac for 3.50 or so, depending where you live, maybe as low as 2.99 or something. I last bought a half-dozen eggs for 59 cents.

Dollar menu, Jaguar Double cheeseburgers are 350 calories or so.

[Al B. Sure!]

However, there is still some sort of incongruities going on here.

Since 1970, the median household has more wage earners, households use significantly more debt (it's virtually from no credit card debt in 1970 to credit exceeding disposable income), and family sizes are much smaller (3.5 children per woman in 1970).

Why did these things occur? Has it not become necessary to have more wage earners, use debt, and have smaller families in order to maintain a median standard of living?

Also, inequality has risen and productivity has outpaced compensation.

All these signs point to a degradation in relative quality of life. So why has quality of life increased supposedly so dramatically? Technology alone has made up for all these otherwise negatives?

[Jon Miller]

TacoBell is better, as far as that goes. A bean burrito is 370 calories. I remember it being more, maybe they decreased how much was in it?

http://www.tacobell.com/nutrition/information

Can it still be found for cheaper than 1$?

JM

[Al B. Sure!]

79 cents I believe.

[Boris Godunov]

I don't eat at Taco Bell, but I looked and it seems the typical charge for a bean burrito is 89 cents.

I can make a bean burrito at home with equivalent ingredients for at least half that cost. So on basis of pure calories, I could eat 6 of those a day to get 2220 calories, which would cost me under $3/day.

One could feasibly spend $1/meal and survive just fine, again if one eliminates all the frills that Americans customarily partake of when buying food.

[Al B. Sure!]

I don't eat at Taco Bell, but I looked and it seems the typical charge for a bean burrito is 89 cents.

I can make a bean burrito at home with equivalent ingredients for at least half that cost. So on basis of pure calories, I could eat 6 of those a day to get 2220 calories, which would cost me under $3/day.

One could feasibly spend $1/meal and survive just fine, again if one eliminates all the frills that Americans customarily partake of when buying food.

I bet you can't make the value of a $1 double cheeseburger at home. You'd need a quarter pound of ground beef, bread, and American cheese. Unless you are shopping at a supermarket that I wish I could know about, you're not going to get it under $1.

Oops, Jon. Looks like I was wrong. McDonald's double cheeseburgers are 440 calories.

[Boris Godunov]

I bet you can't make the value of a $1 double cheeseburger at home. You'd need a quarter pound of ground beef, bread, and American cheese. Unless you are shopping at a supermarket that I wish I could know about, you're not going to get it under $1.

Oops, Jon. Looks like I was wrong. McDonald's double cheeseburgers are 440 calories.

Ever been to Costco? You'd be amazed at how cheap prices are when you buy in quantity and avoid name brands.

Besides, a quarter-pound cheeseburger isn't something that I'd consider a necessity to a daily diet. It's certainly not as nutritionally desirable as food one could prepare at home, given the fat and cholesterol content. That's what I'd call a "frill" food item. I thought the issue was, "can someone subsist reasonably on $2/day," not "can someone subsist on any food they desire for $2/day."

[Jon Miller]

Buying a couple of things, like Watermelon as your fruit, is not reasonable.

JM

[Boris Godunov]

Buying a couple of things, like Watermelon as your fruit, is not reasonable.

JM

Uh, ok... point being? Not sure what you're trying to say here.

[Al B. Sure!]

Ever been to Costco? You'd be amazed at how cheap prices are when you buy in quantity and avoid name brands.

Besides, a quarter-pound cheeseburger isn't something that I'd consider a necessity to a daily diet. It's certainly not as nutritionally desirable as food one could prepare at home, given the fat and cholesterol content. That's what I'd call a "frill" food item. I thought the issue was, "can someone subsist reasonably on $2/day," not "can someone subsist on any food they desire for $2/day."

Who cares about fat and cholesterol? What's wrong with either, Boris?

[Jon Miller]

Uh, ok... point being? Not sure what you're trying to say here.

You and Jaguar saying that you can come up with a list of things to eat for 2$ a day or whatever does not show that it is reasonable to live off of 2$ a day.

JM

[Boris Godunov]

Who cares about fat and cholesterol? What's wrong with either, Boris?

Is that really relevant to the matter at hand? No.

You and Jaguar saying that you can come up with a list of things to eat for 2$ a day or whatever does not show that it is reasonable to live off of 2$ a day.

What's unreasonable about it? We just had a local news report where a reporter lived on $1/day buy shopping frugally. It's definitely possible to do, if you work at it.