Change of Government was good

[OneFootInTheGrave]

At least it allowed some people to speak up

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/jul/20/iraq-inquiry-saddam-mi5-chief

The former MI5 director general Eliza Manningham-Buller today delivered a withering assessment of the case for war against Iraq. Manningham-Buller said the threat posed by Saddam Hussein was low and that the US-led invasion in 2003 had done more harm than good.
.
Manningham-Buller was damning about the impact of the invasion on Iraq, saying the toppling of Saddam had allowed Osama bin Laden and al-Qaida to move in. "Arguably, we gave Osama bin Laden his Iraqi jihad," she added.

She said the focus on Iraq had "reduced the focus on Afghanistan", and was damning in her assessment of every stage of the invasion, from the low threat posed by Iraq and the quality of intelligence provided to the reconstruction process after Saddam was toppled.

Manningham-Buller said there was no evidence of Iraqi involvement in the September 11 attacks on the US, a view she said was shared by the CIA and which prompted the then US defence secretary, Donald Rumsfeld, to set up an alternative intelligence unit.

She revealed that, during a visit to New York, she had tried to persuade Paul Wolfowitz, the then deputy secretary of defence, not to disband the Iraqi army.

Asked whether she had any chance of succeeding, she said: "Not a hope." She said there was "plenty of evidence" that planning for the aftermath of the invasion was "not sufficiently done by the US".

had to wait for Labour to step down, to speak up, clearly... ever is better than never... I guess she feels safe that she will not suicide herself like David Kelly did when he rocked the boat early on (while rocking could make a difference)...

[Dr Strangelove]

.... but it's not like it's news. She said nothing that isn't public knowledge.

[OneFootInTheGrave]

but where was she and public knowledge in 2002/2003?

They all knew it, and they all put up... except David who killed himself because of the "pressure"... also somehow miraculously after the government change, people are speaking up... few years too late, but they feel empowered...

as for the testimony itself, this is the "most damning" from a singe official to date.

[MikeH]

It's not possible to say "We told you so!" often enough to the people who supported the Iraq war though.

[Elok]

Yeah, nothing that wasn't plain in 2003, except for what pertains to events of '04 or '05.

[OneFootInTheGrave]

plain in 2003?

Well here is George speking to the nation in October 2002... an excerpt... very plain to refresh memory

Iraq possesses ballistic missiles with a likely range of hundreds of miles -- far enough to strike Saudi Arabia, Israel, Turkey, and other nations -- in a region where more than 135,000 American civilians and service members live and work. We have also discovered through intelligence that Iraq has a growing fleet of manned and unmanned aerial vehicles that could be used to disperse chemical or biological weapons across broad areas. We are concerned that Iraq is exploring ways of using UAVs (unmanned aerial vehicles) for missions targeting the United States. And of course, sophisticated delivery systems are not required for a chemical or biological attack -- all that might be required are a small container and one terrorist or Iraqi intelligence operative to deliver it.

And that is the source of our urgent concern about Saddam Hussein's links to international terrorist groups. Over the years, Iraq has provided safe haven to terrorists such as Abu Nidal, whose terror organization carried out more than ninety terrorist attacks in twenty countries that killed or injured nearly 900 people, including 12 Americans. Iraq has also provided safe haven to Abu Abbas, who was responsible for seizing the Achille Lauro and killing an American passenger. And we know that Iraq is continuing to finance terror, and gives assistance to groups that use terrorism to undermine Middle East peace.

We know that Iraq and the al-Qaida terrorist network share a common enemy -- the United States of America. We know that Iraq and al-Qaida have had high-level contacts that go back a decade. Some al-Qaida leaders who fled Afghanistan went to Iraq.

These include one very senior al-Qaida leader who received medical treatment in Baghdad this year, and who has been associated with planning for chemical and biological attacks. We have learned that Iraq has trained al-Qaida members in bomb making, poisons, and deadly gases. And we know that after September 11th, Saddam Hussein's regime gleefully celebrated the terrorist attacks on America.

Iraq could decide on any given day to provide a biological or chemical weapon to a terrorist group or individual terrorists. Alliances with terrorists could allow the Iraqi regime to attack America without leaving any fingerprints.

Some have argued that confronting the threat from Iraq could detract from the war against terror. To the contrary, confronting the threat posed by Iraq is crucial to winning the war on terror. When I spoke to the Congress more than a year ago, I said that those who harbor terrorists are as guilty as the terrorists themselves. Saddam Hussein is harboring terrorists and the instruments of terror, the instruments of mass death and destruction. And he cannot be trusted. The risk is simply too great that he will use them, or provide them to a terror network.

that was easy to find... but the same rethoric was valid on this side of the Atlantic too... does this sound like the "threat" posed by Saddam was low to you? Where was Eliza Manningham-Buller than? Ahhh just appointed Director General (DG) of MI5, the British internal national security agency...

[Proteus_MST]

It's not possible to say "We told you so!" often enough to the people who supported the Iraq war though.

Exactly

I wonder btw. about the masses of conservative people (especially in the USA) who supoorted the war and often even accused everyone who spoke out against the war of being unpatriotic, a commi or even a traitor.
Does anyone of them feel guilty? Or do they still think the war was a good idea (and maybe even still believe in the lies of the Bush-government in 2002/2003)?

[Barnabas]

That Hans Blix had failed to find weapons, that a Secular Dictator with a socialist nasser like past was better than a democratically elected islamist (at least for those who care about religious minorities like christians and the rights of women), that Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11, that shiias would try to get even with the sunnies was all quite obvious back in 2003, perhaps not in the USA, but it was around the world.

Americans ended up allied with their puppet state the UK, Aznar Spain and don't forget Poland. Most countries refused to help or support the USA in the Iraq war.

The international opinion was that the USA was going to invade Iraq no matter what, and that if they had to fake evidence or lie in order to do it, they would.

People who supported the Iraq war deserve to be trolled by the welsh poster MBS till they die of asphyxiation (caused by a dixie chick sitting on their face)

[Elok]

plain in 2003?

It was all plain to me. Actually, my reaction to the case for Iraq was: "Hmm, so on the basis of idle speculation about what might be going on inside some trailers we have fuzzy satellite pictures of, we're going to assume that Saddam Hussein is developing WMD. Furthermore, we're going to suggest he'd be stupid enough to actually provoke nuclear war with the US, or even stupider give such weapons to terrorists. The official case is transparent nonsense. They would have to be spectacular jackasses to actually believe in and proceed on the basis of such a flimsy casus belli. While Bush appears to be a cretin, the members of his cabinet are largely experienced politicians and I would expect them to, at the very least, resign in protest to avoid being attached to such a debacle. The only explanation I see is that there is some other, more legitimate reason they're not divulging. In any case, it's irrelevant because he's obviously made up his mind and nobody in Congress has the balls to stop him."

So you see, my only error was in assuming other human beings were rational.

[Barnabas]

I would like to see Sarah Palin apologize to Hans Blix and the Dixie Chicks in the name of all Republicans who supported the Iraq War

[bipolarbear]

I'd like to see her deep throat a 12 guage.

[DinoDoc]

I would like to see Sarah Palin apologize to Hans Blix and the Dixie Chicks in the name of all Republicans who supported the Iraq War

Why should anyone apologize to the Dixie Chicks when they got exactly what they wanted, an excuse to leave Country Music behind?

[SlowwHand]

[rah]

I would like to see Sarah Palin apologize to Hans Blix and the Dixie Chicks in the name of all Republicans who supported the Iraq War

If my memory serves me correct, most of the Democrats voted early on to support it also.

[Sprayber]

If my memory serves me correct, most of the Democrats voted early on to support it also.

That was before they were against it or before it was popular to be against it or something like that.