Norway and Oil

[VetLegion]

From what I've heard, Norway saves up most of the earnings from oil, right?

1. Why?

2. How is it possible in a democracy?

[Asher]

1. Oil doesn't last forever
2. It's not like they need more money right now

[OneFootInTheGrave]

1. because there are one of a few sane democracies
2. because majority realises the benefit and as a part of the deal they are the probably the richest country in the world (per capita)

*where the people actually get their portion well distributed, and the majority of the capital is not in the hands of the few ... so for our USA friends, they would qualify as dirty commies

[DRoseDARs]

2. because majority realises the benefit and as a part of the deal they are the probably the richest country in the world (per capita)

GDP (nominal) per capita
International Monetary Fund (2009 data):
Norway 2nd at $79,085 USD, US 9th at $46,381 USD
World Bank (2008 data):
Norway 2nd at $94,759 USD, US 14th at $46,350 USD
C.I.A. World Fact Book (2009est):
Norway 4th at $80,100 USD, US 10th at $47,000 USD

[VetLegion]

OK, so I'm a welfare recipient in Norway. I come to the government and ask
for more money. What do they say? We can't give you more, we don't have
such money? I point at oil.

I'm a unionized state employee. I demand a higher wage. We go to the government
and they say they can't give us rises, they don't have the funds for it. We point at oil.

I'm a city in the north. We want a new road to bring us out of isolation. We come
to the government asking them to build us a road...

You get the point. How is this situation stable?

[VetLegion]

I'm a company that wants lower taxes so that I could compete with the Chinese.
I ask the government to lower the tax burden. They say they can't, they're strapped
for cash. I point at oil.

[Asher]

The problem is I don't think any of those issues are big problems in Norway.

It makes sense to save/invest the money so the state can continue to fund its high standard of living off the dividends.

I wish Alberta saved more money.

[VetLegion]

I wouldn't say it's a non-issue there. I believe Norway is one of the
countries in the world with the highest taxes. Surely Norwegians would
like to be able to afford more junk, or to go on more vacations to exotic
locations. Work 6 months, party 6 months (the ones when there's no
sun).

Why don't the Norwegians vote for a government that will give them
the money now, before USA prints their savings into oblivion?

[OneFootInTheGrave]

to the welfare guy - the government says: you are getting paid so well for doing nothing, that businesses are complaining they are in competition with welfare for people, you have enough - and go to work.

For everything else - there is a budget, we will consider it in xyz time... for lower taxes = you will never be able to compete with Chinese on the cost, create a premium product instead, we are not lowering taxes... and oil is the investement for the future (until they vote in some idiot, but so far it is not happening, so Norvegians are proving to be above average smart with their voting... or better to say, top of the class)... as long as people in general can think, there is no issue...

the issue with classical democracies like US, UK, or Croatia (probably not that bad?!?) is that culturally and for the first two - educationally, there is no base for an informed political opinion, thus might makes right and the result is waste, waste, waste of gigantic proportions... in US = pork, in UK = "efficiency" , in Croatia = corruption... different names but the same thing... money goes to the government which wastes it to a great degree, ultimately due to the majority of people supporting it in the countries, even though they are worse off for it, but "there is no way out" on the horison, ever.... this is the part where Croatia is actually better, as in US, there is really no way out, two sides of the same coin - always, like two communist parties competing for votes (in Yugo, commies were democratic too, if you were a member, with membership in hundreds of thousands, you could vote too, in US well you have two parties with almost the same policies)... UK is slightly better in the political system, but hopeless in with the majority of tribal voters at large (just read Telegraph/Times/Sun, and I think they are the real majority ) , while in HR there could still be some hope, the parliamentary systems is definitely more flexible, but the biggest group of voters go into UK category - "hopeless"... still overall it is not as ingrained in our society as it is in theirs, so tiny bit of hope lingers still, but getting fainter as the years go by...

[VetLegion]

It's hard for me to grasp such restraint. Perhaps the welfare of the country
is such that everyone is already well off enough to stop caring about material
pleasures. Perhaps Norway is a nation of philosophers like myself?

[OneFootInTheGrave]

nah - your sentence: "It's hard for me to grasp such restraint." describes being Croatian very well ... that is what I am on about

[Kitschum]

1) Look up "Dutch Disease" (it's not syphilis)
2) Norway is a homogenous and sensible country

Many roads in Norway are terrible btw, and Oslo is a dump so there's no shortage of things to spend on.

[DRoseDARs]

I wouldn't say it's a non-issue there. I believe Norway is one of the
countries in the world with the highest taxes. Surely Norwegians would
like to be able to afford more junk, or to go on more vacations to exotic
locations. Work 6 months, party 6 months (the ones when there's no
sun).

Why don't the Norwegians vote for a government that will give them
the money now, before USA prints their savings into oblivion?

According to the Wiki page Norway has a 28% corporate tax rate. 33 countries have higher rates (highest is 41%) if you count Germany and Guyana with their varied rates. The individual progressive tax rate (the more income you make, the more taxes you pay) in Norway is anywhere from 0%-48%. I'd be hard-pressed to find data in English to figure out how that range breaks down into how many Norwegians in which income brackets pay what rate, but I doubt very many pay the highest rate.

[Hauldren Collider]

OK, so I'm a welfare recipient in Norway. I come to the government and ask
for more money. What do they say? We can't give you more, we don't have
such money? I point at oil.

I'm a unionized state employee. I demand a higher wage. We go to the government
and they say they can't give us rises, they don't have the funds for it. We point at oil.

I'm a city in the north. We want a new road to bring us out of isolation. We come
to the government asking them to build us a road...

You get the point. How is this situation stable?

Cry me a river, man. You're unionized, which means you and your coworkers have organized yourselves into a monopoly which means you're probably overpaid anyways. You should develop the humility to understand the idea of supply and demand with respect to labor.

[DRoseDARs]

Also in my readings, I get the sense that the Norwegian government is acutely aware they can't hedge their country's economic future on the continuance of oil exports, so perhaps they're saving that money to help pay for ways of weening their economy off of depending on oil exports once the time comes. Makes sense: Pay for things as you really need them, but save up as much as you reasonably can in a rainy day fund in preparation for something you know is inevitable and will decimate your economy if you don't prepare. Saudi Arabia and the other OPEC should probably take this seriously instead of chugging Mai-Tais, buying Bentleys and building palm-shaped islands. Then again, they are a bunch of medieval goons so **** them.