for nye

[KrazyHorse]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/02/business/02view.html

Most notably the last third discussing the equivalence between taxes on consumption and production.

[notyoueither]

I see them saying how a VAT and a flat tax are the same.

What about savings? Spending on tax exempt items? Transfers outside the jurisdiction?

I expect they are the same, academically, but are they the same in the real world?

[Drake Tungsten]

I can't believe you're still willing to teach NYE basic economics. You're a goddamn humanitarian.

[SlowwHand]

At least wait for him to wipe his ass before you try and kiss it.

[ricketyclik]

I see them saying how a VAT and a flat tax are the same.

They also said a VAT leads to higher income individuals paying a smaller proportion of their income on the tax than lower income individuals, which in fact makes it even more regressive than a flat rate income tax.

[Kuciwalker]

What does someone's income matter if he doesn't spend it on actual consumption? If I'm a multibillionaire who lives in a hut, wouldn't it be reasonable to say I'm less affluent than a multimillionaire who lives in a mansion? As a practical matter, the billions of dollars I have don't represent personal wealth, they just mean I have the job of directing a whole lot of capital.

[ricketyclik]

A multi-millionaire has a choice. A minimum wage worker doesn't.

[Dauphin]

What does someone's income matter if he doesn't spend it on actual consumption? If I'm a multibillionaire who lives in a hut, wouldn't it be reasonable to say I'm less affluent than a multimillionaire who lives in a mansion? As a practical matter, the billions of dollars I have don't represent personal wealth, they just mean I have the job of directing a whole lot of capital.

If you control it, benefit from it, are unencumbered, and are making rational decisons, you are more affluent. You'd have to value your lifestyle in that manner more than the other.

[Kuciwalker]

If someone doesn't actually spend the income from it, how is he benefitting?

[Dauphin]

You want for nothing (that money can buy), if you need something you can get it. That is a benefit.

[KrazyHorse]

And if they spend it they will pay tax then.

[KrazyHorse]

Taxing saving is retarded. I see no reason to penalize somebody who makes the same wage as somebody else, but chooses to save 10% rather than spending his whole salary.

[notyoueither]

What do you consider to be a tax on saving?

[Mint]

If someone doesn't actually spend the income from it, how is he benefitting?

In the same was that he can "benefitt" from owning an option without exercising it.

[Kuciwalker]

You mean how can an unexercised option have value? Because it preserves the ability to exercise in the future.

If the option had no value until exercised, you could buy it for free.