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  • Stimulus = failure

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    NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- The recovery is picking up steam as employers boost payrolls, but economists think the government's stimulus package and jobs bill had little to do with the rebound, according to a survey released Monday.

    In latest quarterly survey by the National Association for Business Economics, the index that measures employment showed job growth for the first time in two years -- but a majority of respondents felt the fiscal stimulus had no impact.

    NABE conducted the study by polling 68 of its members who work in economic roles at private-sector firms. About 73% of those surveyed said employment at their company is neither higher nor lower as a result of the $787 billion Recovery Act, which the White House's Council of Economic Advisers says is on track to create or save 3.5 million jobs by the end of the year.

    That sentiment is shared for the recently passed $17.7 billion jobs bill that calls for tax breaks for businesses that hire and additional infrastructure spending. More than two-thirds of those polled believe the measure won't affect payrolls, while 30% expect it to boost hiring "moderately."

    But the economists see conditions improving. More than half of respondents -- 57% -- say industrial demand is rising, while just 6% see it declining. A growing number also said their firms are increasing spending and profit margins are widening.

    Nearly a quarter of those surveyed forecast that gross domestic product, the broadest measure of economic activity, will grow more than 3% in 2010, and 70% of NABE's respondents expect it to grow more than 2%.

    Still, the survey suggested that tight lending conditions remain a concern. Almost half of those polled said the credit crunch hurts their business.
    SUCK IT KRUGMAN.
    "Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else." -- Frédéric Bastiat
    (+7.00, -6.97)

  • #2


    Unbelievable!

    Comment


    • #3
      He's new, how could he know about the other thread
      If there is no sound in space, how come you can hear the lasers?
      ){ :|:& };:

      Comment


      • #4
        All right. All three of the new guys are Drake DLs.
        Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

        Comment


        • #5
          If there is no sound in space, how come you can hear the lasers?
          ){ :|:& };:

          Comment


          • #6
            I do concede that few businesses if any hire people because of a tax break and that's why Obama shouldn't have given in to Republicans demanding tax credits. What's needed is actual hard spending. Have the government buy cars & trucks for government use, build schools, build highways, build high speed rail, plant trees, build trails in national parks, pay to help farmers slow erosion on their land and do the necessary upgrades, build canals to improve commerce, build and expand airports, etc...

            That sort of stuff definitely creates real jobs, increases demand at factories, increases demand for raw materials, and requires a lot of labor to complete these projects. Tax credits... Not so much.
            Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Hauldren Collider View Post
              Drake as a history of making DLs and having them parrot is positions.
              Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

              Comment


              • #8
                I'm not parroting anyone's position and neither is epmd. We just happen to have come to the same correct conclusion. Also, jesus christ, you are an idiot.
                If there is no sound in space, how come you can hear the lasers?
                ){ :|:& };:

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Oerdin View Post
                  I do concede that few businesses if any hire people because of a tax break and that's why Obama shouldn't have given in to Republicans demanding tax credits. What's needed is actual hard spending. Have the government buy cars & trucks for government use, build schools, build highways, build high speed rail, plant trees, build trails in national parks, pay to help farmers slow erosion on their land and do the necessary upgrades, build canals to improve commerce, build and expand airports, etc...

                  That sort of stuff definitely creates real jobs, increases demand at factories, increases demand for raw materials, and requires a lot of labor to complete these projects. Tax credits... Not so much.
                  News flash: The New Deal didn't end the Great Depression, WWII did.
                  "Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else." -- Frédéric Bastiat
                  (+7.00, -6.97)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    My understanding is that technology developed during WWII created new markets which is why we didn't have massive unemployment after the war.
                    If there is no sound in space, how come you can hear the lasers?
                    ){ :|:& };:

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Actually, GDP had recovered with in 2.5 years of the new deal starting. The graph says it all, failing down until Roosevelt took office then once the new deal started it went up, up, up. Republicans won big in the election of Nov 1936 and they demanded big cuts in the budget which resulted in a new recession but then the New Deal was restored and the economy started going up, up, up again. The graph of GDP pretty much tells the story of the New Deal's success.



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                      Uploaded with ImageShack.us
                      Last edited by Dinner; April 26, 2010, 18:06.
                      Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Hauldren Collider View Post
                        My understanding is that technology developed during WWII created new markets which is why we didn't have massive unemployment after the war.
                        There were actually fewer markets after WW2 then before due to the tremendous damage caused by the war. What WW2 did do was destroy most of the industrialized world so the US was the last major world power left to supply most manufactured goods thus US exports took off. It didn't hurt that for three years Americans couldn't buy most goods so there was a lot of pent up demand when the war ended which helped Us industry make the transition but that doesn't change the fact that US GDP had recovered fully by late 1936 which is well before WW2 started.
                        Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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                        • #13
                          Besides even if you want to lie and pretend the US hadn't recovered prior to WW2 (when in fact it had recovered all lost GDP by 1936) then you're still saying government spending pulled the country out of depression. Notice how even in your analysis it was direct government spending and not tax credits which got the job done?

                          In any event I agree with Krugman that the stimulus was too small and filled with to many tax credits instead of real hard spending which is how you prime the pump. Build up those national assets which virtually pay for themselves over the long run by increasing commerce (new highways, new canals, dams, new railroads, new schools, etc.. Real brick and mortar stuff).
                          Last edited by Dinner; April 26, 2010, 18:11.
                          Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Oerdin View Post
                            There were actually fewer markets after WW2 then before due to the tremendous damage caused by the war.
                            WHAT
                            we're talking about the UNITED STATES

                            Also that dip on your graph near WWII is the new deal getting cut back because they figured it had done its job. In fact, it just created a bubble.
                            If there is no sound in space, how come you can hear the lasers?
                            ){ :|:& };:

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Of course we're talking about the US, the graphs are both about the US.

                              Also, no, it wasn't a bubble. It just shows that when you majorly cut back spending during a weak economy you slip back into recession which shouldn't surprise anyone. Notice how even with the 1937 recession due to the Republican budget cuts total GDP was still higher then the pre-depression GDP?
                              Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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