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Pentagon makes incremental change in "don't ask, don't tell."

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  • Pentagon makes incremental change in "don't ask, don't tell."

    Pentagon eases policy on gays, rebukes a general
    By Julian E. Barnes

    Los Angeles Times


    WASHINGTON - Pentagon officials yesterday announced new policies that will cut down on the number of service members expelled each year for being gay - and admonished a general for urging soldiers to oppose changes to the "don't ask, don't tell" policy.

    The 1993 law barring gays and lesbians from serving openly requires the military to boot out members who admit they are gay or are proven to be gay in formal hearings. About 13,000 have been discharged under the law.

    But changes announced by Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates will make it more difficult to expel gays.

    The changes restrict the grounds for initiating an inquiry into service members' sexuality, limit evidence that can be used against them, and require that more senior officers oversee the process.

    "These changes represent an important improvement in the way the current law is put into practice, above all by providing a greater measure of common sense and common decency," Gates said.

    It was the first big step of a yearlong process. For the rest of the year, a task force is to study what the military needs to do to repeal the ban. Discharges will continue under the law during the review.

    Adm. Michael G. Mullen, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, also took the unusual step of publicly chastising a three-star general for urging troops and their families to oppose the repeal.

    Mullen said that remarks by Lt. Gen. Benjamin R. Mixon, the commander of U.S. Army forces in the Pacific who urged opposition in a letter to a newspaper, were "inappropriate."

    President Obama said in his State of the Union address that he would pursue a repeal of the ban. Soon after, Gates announced he would review the ban and work on ways to make enforcement of the law more humane.

    In the weeks since, the leaders of the major military branches all have testified before Congress about the ban. While none endorsed repeal as explicitly as Mullen, only Gen. James T. Conway, the Marine Corps commandant, said it should stay in place.

    Conway's dissent did not irk Pentagon officials, who said the Joint Chiefs were expected to offer their opinions when asked by Congress.

    However, senior military leaders were surprised by a letter to the editor earlier this month by Lt. Gen. Mixon.

    In a letter to Stars and Stripes, a Pentagon-owned newspaper that is run independently, Mixon urged service members to write their elected officials and chain of command and oppose repeal.

    "If there is a policy direction that someone in uniform disagrees with . . . you feel strongly about it, the answer is not advocacy, it is in fact to vote with your feet," Mullen said, suggesting Mixon ought to resign.

    Under the changes announced by Gates, only general or flag officers - meaning admirals or generals - can initiate an inquiry into whether a service member is gay.

    Gates' order also ends the practice under which information provided to lawyers, clergy, physicians, and psychotherapists can be used as evidence against service members accused of being gay.
    Too Little Change or No?

    Not sure whether to be underwhelmed, or happy with this. Regardless of what I decide to make of this, at least it's still in the right direction.
    A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.

  • #2
    Just a commentary...vast majority of the comments on the Canadian news sites for this were all incredulous.

    Comments like "It's not the 1950s anymore".

    And I agree. Even if we look back 10 years from now, I imagine most of the people who were defending the policy of evicting gays from the military because they're gay would recognize the policy was ridiculous. Just like how they look back now at the 1950s/60s and wonder how we ever had those civil rights issues.
    "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
    Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

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    • #3
      Asher, someday, I hope to see my country become more free as other Western countries are.
      A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.

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      • #4
        Too little change, but I'm glad to see it. Noone in my platoon (airborne infantry) cared about gay stuff. We had a handful of fruity guys in our company, but they were good soldiers so we were uninterested in causing them problems. This is a great way to strike at the heart of anti-gay bigotry; if we can mellow out the military (perhaps our most macho segment), then surely society will follow.


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        Everybody knows...Democracy...One of Us Cannot be Wrong...War...Fanatics

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        • #5
          Originally posted by MrFun View Post
          Asher, someday, I hope to see my country become more free as other Western countries are.
          If not, you'll always have your insane amount of guns and freedom to incite genocide.
          "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
          Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

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          • #6
            We're not going to talk about different cultural values with freedom of speech in this thread.
            A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.

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            • #7
              What a crock... maybe up to a year to actually change the law/rules. While some might consider this a step in the right direction, it's just another stall tactic... making it seem like they really aren't going to change. Why the hell is it going to take a year for a real change?
              Keep on Civin'
              RIP rah, Tony Bogey & Baron O

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              • #8
                I'm not big on tolerance when acceptance could/should be had. But in situations where acceptance can't be had by all we need to settle on tolerance. While I am tolerant of different cultures it is only in certain amounts, not so much types. Thus, I won't be moving to the Castro disctrict any sooner than I'll be moving to Little Italy, but I think both are nice to visit.

                This said, the military is both a choice and something of a right so far as it is public service. The military rejects others from volunteering based on physical conditions that may cause the individual harm if they were to serve (i.e. don't let the blind guy fly a plane). At the same time public sectors cannot discriminate in the same way as companies are not allowed to be protective or "paternal". So, we have to realize that in this way the governement is different, and apparently gets to be.

                The don't ask, don't tell policy was put into place to protect the individuals from harm due to their abnormality/culture/difference. Should they be doing this? If it were to be known that an individual were of a certain nature (gay, half-blind, etc.) they do hold the right to remove them from harms way.

                Personally, I don't feel that a person sexual orientation makes them any less of a soldier. However, I'm not everyone in the armed forces. Blacks were once required to stay within colored regimes, hopefully with time we learn to stop tolerating and begin to just accept.
                Monkey!!!

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Ming View Post
                  What a crock... maybe up to a year to actually change the law/rules. While some might consider this a step in the right direction, it's just another stall tactic... making it seem like they really aren't going to change. Why the hell is it going to take a year for a real change?
                  I am reminded of an entirely different historical issue where some thought change was happening too fast, others thought it was going too slow, and others thought it was going fine. RE: The critics and supporters of President Lincoln and Republican Congress on issue of slavery during Civil War.
                  A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Japher View Post
                    I'm not big on tolerance when acceptance could/should be had. But in situations where acceptance can't be had by all we need to settle on tolerance. While I am tolerant of different cultures it is only in certain amounts, not so much types. Thus, I won't be moving to the Castro disctrict any sooner than I'll be moving to Little Italy, but I think both are nice to visit.

                    This said, the military is both a choice and something of a right so far as it is public service. The military rejects others from volunteering based on physical conditions that may cause the individual harm if they were to serve (i.e. don't let the blind guy fly a plane). At the same time public sectors cannot discriminate in the same way as companies are not allowed to be protective or "paternal". So, we have to realize that in this way the governement is different, and apparently gets to be.

                    The don't ask, don't tell policy was put into place to protect the individuals from harm due to their abnormality/culture/difference. Should they be doing this? If it were to be known that an individual were of a certain nature (gay, half-blind, etc.) they do hold the right to remove them from harms way.

                    Personally, I don't feel that a person sexual orientation makes them any less of a soldier. However, I'm not everyone in the armed forces. Blacks were once required to stay within colored regimes, hopefully with time we learn to stop tolerating and begin to just accept.
                    So racial segregation in the military before Truman's presidency was in place to protect blacks from harm.

                    I don't like your use of the word "abnormality."
                    A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.

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                    • #11
                      Maybe I would feel ok with this if this was done shortly after the current rules were put in place. But how long has it been now... just another stall tactic.
                      Keep on Civin'
                      RIP rah, Tony Bogey & Baron O

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Japher View Post
                        Thus, I won't be moving to the Castro disctrict any sooner than I'll be moving to Little Italy, but I think both are nice to visit.

                        Nice story. In the real world, Castro's island is not a voluntary living situation.


                        The don't ask, don't tell policy was put into place to protect the individuals from harm due to their abnormality/

                        wtf


                        Personally, I don't feel that a person sexual orientation makes them any less of a soldier. However, I'm not everyone in the armed forces.

                        Here's a study by UF from this past Nov:


                        UF study finds military support for gay ban falling
                        by Nathan Crabbe

                        Support for the “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” policy restricting gays and lesbians from military service has fallen sharply among veterans since the policy was introduced, according to a new study done in part by a University of Florida researcher.

                        About 40 percent of Iraq and Afghanistan war veterans supported the policy in 2006, as compared to 75 percent of military personnel in 1993, according to the study. The research was conducted by UF psychology professor Bonnie Moradi and a military sociologist at the RAND Corporation, a private research group that advises the Pentagon.

                        The study found that having gay or lesbian soldiers in units had no major impact on military discipline, raising doubts about a justification for “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell.” One-fifth of those surveyed said they knew a gay or lesbian member of their unit and nearly three-quarters said they were comfortable in the presence of gays and lesbians.

                        “Serving with another service member who was gay or lesbian was not a significant factor that affected unit cohesion or readiness to fight,” RAND researcher Laura Miller told the Boston Globe.

                        The study was commissioned by the Palm Center at the University of California at Santa Barbara, where researchers have advocated lifting the ban. It found 40 percent of U.S. military personnel who served in Iraq or Afghanistan opposed allowing gays and lesbians to serve openly, 28 percent supported it and 33 percent were unsure or had no opinion.

                        Introduced by President Clinton in 1993 as a compromise to completely lifting the ban on gays in the military, “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” prevents those who openly acknowledge their homosexuality from serving in the military. President Obama pledged to repeal the ban during the campaign and has been criticized for the lack of action on the issue.





                        Blacks were once required to stay within colored regimes, hopefully with time we learn to stop tolerating and begin to just accept.

                        Segregation is toleration? I don't get the above statement.
                        Last edited by Ecofarm; March 26, 2010, 13:51.
                        Everybody knows...Democracy...One of Us Cannot be Wrong...War...Fanatics

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