I've deliberatley been ignoring US politics

[Heraclitus]

for some time now. Can someone sum up in a single sentence if the US is now like most European & Rich Commonwealth countries and will soon boast with socialized medicine?

[MikeH]

No, never.

[Heraclitus]

No, never.

So what's up with some bill or other I've heard people make a fuss about?

[Theben]

It's socialized medicine!

[MikeH]

Reasonable summary here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8580192.stm

I like the pictures at the bottom.

[OneFootInTheGrave]

they rather let thousands of them unecessarily die each year than becoming commies... determination for a cause... cuban embargo is still on too

[Drake Tungsten]

We should've let the Russians have their way with you people. Truman...

[MikeH]

In Europe we watch the healthcare debate utterly bemused. I don't think anyone can understand why one wouldn't want proper socialized healthcare.

[Drake Tungsten]

Many Americans would prefer to not bear the fiscal burden of a European-style welfare state, particularly with the demographic timebomb of an aging society confronting all developed nations. America was, before this healthcare bill passed, better prepared to deal with an aging society than European countries.

It's puzzling to me to see young people in Europe who are perfectly happy with the extensive welfare state in their countries. As badly as young people in America are going to be ****ed over by their elders, young people in Europe have had and will continue to have it worse. I guess most people just can't think rationally about their long-term interests...

[Heraclitus]

We are a bit mad in this regard. I think many of us are hoping that immigrants will pay for us when we are old but considering how much we suck at assimilating immigrants or attracting the best of the lot I doubt they will want to pay for dirty old foreigners. Anycase statistically immigrants and their descendants are tax eaters here (I have a gut feelign that only the top 20% or less of our native populations probably pay more in taxes than they directy or indirectly cost the state).

[dannubis]

Many Americans would prefer to not bear the fiscal burden of a European-style welfare state, particularly with the demographic timebomb of an aging society confronting all developed nations. America was, before this healthcare bill passed, better prepared to deal with an aging society than European countries.

It's puzzling to me to see young people in Europe who are perfectly happy with the extensive welfare state in their countries. As badly as young people in America are going to be ****ed over by their elders, young people in Europe have had and will continue to have it worse. I guess most people just can't think rationally about their long-term interests...

If by being better prepared you mean more willing to drop old people the I guess you have a point.

[MikeH]

Many Americans would prefer to not bear the fiscal burden of a European-style welfare state, particularly with the demographic timebomb of an aging society confronting all developed nations. America was, before this healthcare bill passed, better prepared to deal with an aging society than European countries.

It's puzzling to me to see young people in Europe who are perfectly happy with the extensive welfare state in their countries. As badly as young people in America are going to be ****ed over by their elders, young people in Europe have had and will continue to have it worse. I guess most people just can't think rationally about their long-term interests...

It's definitely in my long term interests to have free at point of use healthcare as I get older. And for any kids I might have... and for any young person here it's also in their interests to maintain the system for the same reason.

And we already pay a lot, lot less per capita than you do for healthcare for comparable or better outcomes at most levels (even if we're not quite as cutting edge at the most advanced levels our life expectancy, infant mortality etc. are v. good).

If I switched to a US system and my employer had to pay for health insurance at the level I get from the NHS they'd have to pay for it by cutting my salary. If insurance cost what it does in the US it'd cost me a lot more than what I pay in tax for the NHS.

Plus it's in everyones interest to live in a healthy population.

No brainer.

[Kropotkin]

Well, I would say that much of the bemusement is derived from the arguments used by some, most notably on the con-side, rather than the issue in itself.

[MikeH]

Things that people in the UK have never experienced and can't understand or even comprehend putting up with:

1. Stress about medical bills/not being able to afford treatment for chronic illness/being bankrupted by illness.
2. Having to weigh up whether or not to go to the doctor for financial/insurance reasons.

Both those things are total scary head****s.

[MikeH]

Well, I would say that much of the bemusement is derived from the arguments used by some, most notably on the con-side, rather than the issue in itself.

Absolutely.