Bank forecloses on wrong house; owners told tough.

[MichaeltheGreat]

You couldn't spot a compelling argument if it danced naked in front of you. As long as it agrees with your preconceptions, it's brilliant.

Pot, meet Kettle?

[Hauldren Collider]

No. I'm the one who recognized Reg was right about agent orange, remember? That was certainly not my preconception. On the other hand, you can figure out what MrFun believes before he even knows himself by getting up early and reading HuffPo.

[kentonio]

No. I'm the one who recognized Reg was right about agent orange, remember?

Reg wasn't 'right' about Agent Orange you muppet, he was shown to be a frothing conspiracy theorist who based his bull**** on a self published book by a nutter, and you decided to squander what little credibility you had left by jumping on the nutjob bandwagon. You really need to think a bit more carefully about which issues you side with Reg on.

[regexcellent]

Ahahaha here we go again.

There was a wide array of evidence I gave you, you just chose to laser-focus on a book because oh my god, it's self-published! That must mean that it's tinfoil hat garbage! Lots of books are self-published and anyway, you have no reason to believe that the people who wrote that book were nutters.

Then Kuci came in and destroyed what ****ty statistical "evidence" exists for Agent Orange causing cancer and birth defects. You just choose to ignore that because in your world self-publishing books is like, a mortal sin or something instead of just a business decision.

[DaShi]

Maybe it did need its own thread:

http://apolyton.net/showthread.php/201856-I-m-Glad-They-are-Saying-This?p=6187531&viewfull=1#post6187531

[regexcellent]

The Agent Orange thing is like Asher continuing to believe that Alberta can **** the US by cutting oil shipments. In fact it's the exact same situation. It's truly amazing.

[Hauldren Collider]

You're right, Kentonio, I see the problem. I am now as determined as you are to insist that Agent Orange is clearly culpable of an enormous myriad of birth defects, respiratory problems, AND exceedingly rare cancers based on highly limited exposure data. That's quite a toxin. But if it weren't for the fact that the book against it was self-published, I might be inclined to be skeptical of the medical and chemical possibility of such varied symptoms.

[DaShi]

Alright, welcome the Dark side, man!

[kentonio]

Ahahaha here we go again.

There was a wide array of evidence I gave you, you just chose to laser-focus on a book because oh my god, it's self-published! That must mean that it's tinfoil hat garbage! Lots of books are self-published and anyway, you have no reason to believe that the people who wrote that book were nutters.

A wide array of evidence?

Then Kuci came in and destroyed what ****ty statistical "evidence" exists for Agent Orange causing cancer and birth defects.

IIRC Kuci came in and made some generalized comments about statistics. Although he is probably a very good statistics guy, I'll still take the professional opinions of the people who actually work directly with these kinds of medical issues for a living over a couple of forum posts from a guy not long out of college. Call me crazy.

You just choose to ignore that because in your world self-publishing books is like, a mortal sin or something instead of just a business decision.

You should probably buy gold, it's the only wise business decision before the inevitable apocalypse. Oh and guns, but I assume you've already got that covered.

The Agent Orange thing is like Asher continuing to believe that Alberta can **** the US by cutting oil shipments. In fact it's the exact same situation. It's truly amazing.

It is indeed hilarious how many times you kids have been made to look like total ****ing idiots by Asher over the fungible oil issue.

You're right, Kentonio, I see the problem. I am now as determined as you are to insist that Agent Orange is clearly culpable of an enormous myriad of birth defects, respiratory problems, AND exceedingly rare cancers based on highly limited exposure data. That's quite a toxin. But if it weren't for the fact that the book against it was self-published, I might be inclined to be skeptical of the medical and chemical possibility of such varied symptoms.

You're smarter than this.

[Hauldren Collider]

At any rate, no, MtG did not make a compelling case. Seriously, Mike, WTF? How can you expect an organization as large as Bank of America to not make mistakes every once in a while? There is no perfect human system in existence. Everything, EVERYTHING, has some level of defect rate. Hell, even when doing systems programming, they tell us to put checks in our code because there's some minute chance of failure somewhere in the system, and that's electronic. Throw humans into the equation and there's just no way of having a foolproof system. You're being absurd. It's not "mistake mentality", it's just reality.

[Felch]

Wait, if Agent Orange didn't give those Commies birth defects, what ****ing good did it do?

[MichaeltheGreat]

No. I'm the one who recognized Reg was right about agent orange, remember? That was certainly not my preconception. On the other hand, you can figure out what MrFun believes before he even knows himself by getting up early and reading HuffPo.

No, neither of you two know jack **** about rainbow agents. Your collective knowledge on the subject could be written inside the cover of a matchbook in block letters with a grease pencil.

re your post below about Kuci "destroying" statistical evidence - LMFAO, you're three just out of your teens twits in a triangle jerk mutual admiration society. Get a fourth and you'll be on your way to a circle jerk.

[MichaeltheGreat]

At any rate, no, MtG did not make a compelling case. Seriously, Mike, WTF? How can you expect an organization as large as Bank of America to not make mistakes every once in a while? There is no perfect human system in existence. Everything, EVERYTHING, has some level of defect rate. Hell, even when doing systems programming, they tell us to put checks in our code because there's some minute chance of failure somewhere in the system, and that's electronic. Throw humans into the equation and there's just no way of having a foolproof system. You're being absurd. It's not "mistake mentality", it's just reality.

Like KH, you're generalizing. A mistake is a mistake, all the same. Let me give you another industry example. Biomass power-plant operations. You have a weigh station that receives incoming fuel shipments, and you have to random sample some shipments for moisture content using a bomb calorimeter. The calorimeter can both print test data and dump it to a database.

You can "make a mistake" and forget to order printer paper rolls for the calorimeter. In that case, you don't have an immediate paper record (indirectly required by the air quality permit folks) of the BTU/lb of that batch of received fuel.

In another part of the plant, you can fail to properly tag and lock down the disconnect for a piece of equipment under maintenance. There's also a disconnect on the equipment itself, but procedure is you tag and lock down the equipment at the local disconnect AND at the Motor Control Center panel, which is in a building in another part of the plant, and has no visibility to the controlled equipment. You also have control room logs and alerts to assure that control room operators know that there is scheduled maintenance on that piece of equipment. There's a process for locking out and alerting the maintenance, and one for clearing the equipment back into service. Generally, every system will have redundancy, so you may have one pump or motor down for maintenance, while the second in that system is running and the entire plant is still live.

It's relatively simple to **** up the first situation and not realize that you're low on calorimeter printer paper. Get the number wrong in inventory, any number of fairly small errors. The consequence of failure is some paperwork, some administrative headache, and potentially a dance with the air quality agency if you **** up at the wrong time and they do a spot inspection or an audit of your total fuel consumption, and a fairly small fine.

In the second scenario, it takes multiple failures to create a hazard situation, but the consequence is someone gets a limb torn off or gets electrocuted, or similar.

The first type of error is unavoidable in the long term. It will happen, The second type of error is 100% avoidable, should NEVER happen, and the consequences are severe injury or death, and four or five responsible people canned for cause. If you want to be a reductionist about it, you will have a non-insurable loss due to a wrongful death or disability claim and likely punitive damages for gross negligence, plus massive incurred costs related to your contractually obligated reporting, regulatory inspections, the lender and utility all over your ass for avoidable loss, etc.

I never made the point that BofA won't make any mistakes - that is absurd. HOWEVER, making a mistake of the magnitude of carrying out a foreclosure, possession and eviction on a property in which you have no legal interest is a totally different story. It's not a mistake, it's a totally avoidable multi-step failure of business process. Two different things. First KH, now you, reflexively lump them in together.

[Asher]

It is indeed hilarious how many times you kids have been made to look like total ****ing idiots by Asher over the fungible oil issue.

Oil is so fungible there's a ~$40 spread in the price for Alberta oil vs West Texas oil due to transportation logistics.

[MrFun]

I never made the point that BofA won't make any mistakes - that is absurd. HOWEVER, making a mistake of the magnitude of carrying out a foreclosure, possession and eviction on a property in which you have no legal interest is a totally different story. It's not a mistake, it's a totally avoidable multi-step failure of business process. Two different things. First KH, now you, reflexively lump them in together.