Interesting musings on IQ and the Wealth of Nations

[Heraclitus]

I like harsh insluts.

Those musings were not interesting, you lying sack of crap.

They where to me. But I like reading and interpreting stats.

I'm guessing you're sucker enough to click the link.

The article is well written. If you guys don't find the topi interesting this is ok, but if so why are you posting here?

I thought it was religiousness directly correlates with dumbness. It has been conclusively proved here on poly that the vast majority of the dumb posters are also the religious ones, for example.

Religion also has a (supposed as I hope the Korean Christians example demonstrates how this may not be the "real" case) negative correlation with dumbness but this point would make little sense since the thread is about the average IQ of a population and what this means for economic succes.

Anyway, none of this stops you from being an out and out racist.

Everyone is racist against the Welsh.

[Heraclitus]

The fact that you think this is a ridiculous assertion makes me laugh.

KH yes if you ignore poverty, acces to information, poor nutrition & healthcare and polution the kids in China really do have as good an environment to develop intelectually as the kids in France.

[Heraclitus]

Are you postulating a belief in human equality as a "religion," or did you somehow get the impression that Moby is a Christian? I think the first one is a little less silly. But not much.

Humans being equal in a ethical sense has merit as a usefull abstraction. But equality in any empirical sense is actually a step below mainstream religion. Not only does it fail Occam's razor but its been disproven as solidly as the hypothesis that the Earth is 6000 years old.


Aneeshm is right. Its part of a memeplex that for political and economic purposes is the religion of the West. It also has a track record of being as helpful to scientific inquiry as the commision that decided Gallileo best spend his retirement in house arrest. God Nobel prize winners have been put down for reasonable casual observations about Africa's condition and profesors have had to step down because they stated that men have a higher variance of inteligence than women and that this may explain a part of the academic acheivment in the natural sciences! Intelectual freedom my ass. Even medical research that could save lives or improve them is more often than not scrapped if it endangers this "precious" notion!

For someone who dislikes religion because of how its detrimental to mankind the comparison of ekwaliteee in the sense Aneeshm speak of to religion is only natural. Denial of human biological diversity is nothing short of claiming evolution stops at the neck. Its the Lysenkoism of the West.


Note: For those who don't know that Lysenkoism is
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trofim_Lysenko

[Heraclitus]

Surprising that no one has pointed out that IQ tests merely measure one's proficiency at IQ tests; little else.

Surprising, yes, because people really love to repeat that untruth.

Since you are one of the tew people in this thread who knows something and hasn't directly commented on the article I'm wondering if you happened to read it. Are there any flaws that I should be aware of?

[Heraclitus]

Actually, there's quite a bit of evidence that intelligence is associated with poverty.

Really? This is interesting. I used to belive as a teenager inteligence has little correlation to income but after looking at the stats it was too hard to deny despite having to tone down my ultra leftie world view.



Could you please provide citations since this goes against practically everything I know?

[Kuciwalker]

Since you are one of the tew people in this thread who knows something and hasn't directly commented on the article I'm wondering if you happened to read it.

No.

[Perfection]

gawd, dumb people are so stupid.

[Heraclitus]

No.

Ah ok sorry for bothering you with the PM.

[KrazyHorse]

KH yes if you ignore poverty, acces to information, poor nutrition & healthcare and polution the kids in China really do have as good an environment to develop intelectually as the kids in France.

I was actually defending the reasonableness of the second claim, not the first.

[Heraclitus]

I was actually defending the reasonableness of the second claim, not the first.

US blacks and Saudis? Ok its imaginable the culture of learning is as bad for US blacks even if you take into account all the girls in Saudia Arabia.


Even so this is either a bit of cherry picking or you aren't denying that group differences in average IQ probably have a genetic component. I have no attachment to the US Black vs. White gap since there are many other important cognitive differences among the various populations of Homo Sapiens that are unlikley to be explained just by environmental factors. What I get emotional about is that people with credentials who dare to say this are risking having their public image smeared for just stating a likley (and in some cases the most likley) hypothesis. Even worse sometimes random people are discredited and picked on just for being less carefull talking about the quiet consensus among their peers.

[Heraclitus]

On a related note, it'll be interesting to see the failure mode of South Africa; bang, or whimper? Right now, it's already failed by all the metrics a responsible citizen would care about. I'm wondering if its eventual abdication of the state apparatus will be catastrophic, like Rhodesia's was, or whether they will continue their slow decay (it's accelerating) into the abyss.

Whimper. I can't see a bang scenario in the next 20 years.

They still have reasonable White and Indian (despite emigration due to violence) populations as well as a relativley large Coloreds (mixed) population. Also South Africa if I remember right has granted Chinese (or was it all East Asians) the same benefits enjoyed by most of the other non-Whites in employment so we may see more Chinese immigration there.


In short they will do much much better than Zimbabwe in the next two decades. They will be convergining even in this period tho. The speed of deterioration will depend on the demographics as well as on how well their explotiation of natural resources will go.

[KrazyHorse]

Ad hominem, Horse.

Go **** yourself, ****.

Intelligence measurement/testing is a vastly complex issue, as is the very nature of just what intelligence is, and I'm just not invested enough in winning an innerwebs argument to do the work it would take to make my case.

You don't have a case, ****. All you appear to have is some random platitudes.

It is a fascinating issue, but not one I find myself interested in discussing with you. Based on your words here, you seem more interested in a [manhood] comparison. Knock yourself out, but please don't expect me to play.

Have a nice day, sir.

I hope you get hit by a bus.

****.

[KrazyHorse]

US blacks and Saudis? Ok its imaginable the culture of learning is as bad for US blacks even if you take into account all the girls in Saudia Arabia.


Even so this is either a bit of cherry picking or you aren't denying that group differences in average IQ probably have a genetic component. I have no attachment to the US Black vs. White gap since there are many other important cognitive differences among the various populations of Homo Sapiens that are unlikley to be explained just by environmental factors. What I get emotional about is that people with credentials who dare to say this are risking having their public image smeared for just stating a likley (and in some cases the most likley) hypothesis. Even worse sometimes random people are discredited and picked on just for being less carefull talking about the quiet consensus among their peers.

Hera, I'm not particularly attached to the axiom that all "races" have the exact same distribution of intellectual capabilities, but neither am I particularly impressed with the nonsense you've posted here (in my mind it's not much more rigorous an investigation of the issue than buster's content-free platitudes).

There is obviously a significant genetic component to IQ, and IQ obviously correlates strongly with life outcomes. It's not obvious to me that cross-country comparisons are particularly meaningful for establishing a causal relationship between race and intelligence, on the other hand.

Much of your speculation in this thread smacks more of confirmation bias than a serious investigation. It's unsurprising that you've managed to attract aneeshm and caligastia (two of the most juvenile pseudoscientists on poly) with your nonsense.

[Heraclitus]

Hera, I'm not particularly attached to the axiom that all "races" have the exact same distribution of intellectual capabilities, but neither am I particularly impressed with the nonsense you've posted here (in my mind it's not much more rigorous an investigation of the issue than buster's content-free platitudes).

There is obviously a significant genetic component to IQ, and IQ obviously correlates strongly with life outcomes. It's not obvious to me that cross-country comparisons are particularly meaningful for establishing a causal relationship between race and intelligence, on the other hand.

Much of your speculation in this thread smacks more of confirmation bias than a serious investigation. It's unsurprising that you've managed to attract aneeshm and caligastia (two of the most juvenile pseudoscientists on poly) with your nonsense.

Fair enough I suppose.

But don't you see that racial differences in inteligence within the same country will always be attributed to "racism"? How can one take seriusly the claim that the IQ gap between different races for people who's parents have the same SES is "sterotype threat"? What about adopotion and twin studies? How do you commnet the fact all attempts to rid IQ tests of their "residual cultural bias" have only increased the White vs. Black gap in the US? Why do East Asians raised by white adopted families do better than their white siblings? Why didn't Asian immigrants do as poorly as African or Latin American immigrants even when there was definite racism against them (Yellow peril)?


Tell me honestly. If hypothetically there where relavant differences in average IQ or IQ variance due to genetic causes between the races is there anything, anything at all that could change the public discourse today or at least end the bullying of scientists who would choose investigate this or even just the genetics of inteligence?


I admit I may have a pro-HBD bias but society at large is so attached to a belief they dare not test it. And I say indications are pretty strong that the map does not match the territory here.


Anycase check out the OP, my original intent was for this thread to be about the correlation between national IQ scores and economic succes. The graph that marks "White", "Black", "NE Asian" and "Other" is from the article. The disscusion probably got sidetracked by it and I was just pissed to see such rampant denialism.

Edit: Ok I tried to troll Kid too.
2nd Edit: Yes I used denialism to troll DanS

[DaShi]

Really? This is interesting. I used to belive as a teenager inteligence has little correlation to income but after looking at the stats it was too hard to deny despite having to tone down my ultra leftie world view.



Could you please provide citations since this goes against practically everything I know?

First, clarify what you are saying. Your response to my post doesn't make any sense.