Interesting musings on IQ and the Wealth of Nations

[DaShi]

Actually, there's quite a bit of evidence that intelligence is associated with poverty.

[aneeshm]

Flynn effect. IQ's are rising around the world.

Treat kids badly. Raise them in poverty or warzones. Deny them encouragement in learning. They will score low IQs.

The environmental impact on IQ scores is profound

AFAIK, the effect is consistent across groups and preserves the gaps between them. So the one-standard-deviation black-white-gap has remained constant even taking the effect into account, precisely because it applies to both groups. (Which shouldn't be happening if it was environment which was responsible for blacks lagging behind. (Not strictly true - it could happen if whites had the same environmental problems as blacks to begin with; but in that case, it means that if all other things are equal, blacks lag behind.))

[aneeshm]

Even with these optimistic assumptions this will not change the global trend of inequality. The best Subsaharan Africa can do is what countries like Brazil are today. Third world but not hellhole.

Unless they either:

a) Encourage policies which give their smart fraction a greater incentive to breed, or
b) Import their ruling class/caste by offering good perks to anyone capable of doing the job.

Sadly, this is never going to happen.

On a related note, it'll be interesting to see the failure mode of South Africa; bang, or whimper? Right now, it's already failed by all the metrics a responsible citizen would care about. I'm wondering if its eventual abdication of the state apparatus will be catastrophic, like Rhodesia's was, or whether they will continue their slow decay (it's accelerating) into the abyss.

[aneeshm]

I thought it was religiousness directly correlates with dumbness. It has been conclusively proved here on poly that the vast majority of the dumb posters are also the religious ones, for example.

Quoted for reference.

Anyway, none of this stops you from being an out and out racist.

It is always amusing to watch the religious attempting to rationalise away the facts when their religion has no room for them. (In your equality-addled mind, everyone is born equal, with equal abilities and equal potential, and the races are not different qualitatively or statistically.)

Sadly, neither reality nor science nor the common sense of the last six thousand years of human history (nor human history, come to think of it) support this view.

Lastly, "racist"? Are you serious? The only reason that that smear worked was because people took it seriously - because they were your co-religionists, and it felt as serious to them as being accused of kufr would to a Muslim. Nobody cares any more - you can utter your juvenile canards until you're blue in the face, and you'll be ignored in all serious discussions on the topic.

You're acting as if repeating this mantra will protect you from the heretic with his dangerous ideas. If you want a sniff of the acrid, sulphurous smell of the "racist" truth, look here.

[Buster Crabbe's Uncle]

I question the base assumptions found throughout this thread.

Surprising that no one has pointed out that IQ tests merely measure one's proficiency at IQ tests; little else.


Also, if the numbers posted in this thread do not represent results from the SAME IQ test, they are less than reliable, even on that scale. Indeed, differences in language and culture being what they are, should everyone have taken the same test, the numbers are meaningless.

The standardized test of my youth was, iirc, the Minnesota-[something] test. As it happens, Minnesota made out pretty well on the test, according to the IQ-by-state chart. I'm just sayin'.

[Kuciwalker]

Surprising that no one has pointed out that IQ tests merely measure one's proficiency at IQ tests; little else.

Surprising, yes, because people really love to repeat that untruth.

[Kuciwalker]

dp

[Buster Crabbe's Uncle]

Untruth, sir? If you don't see the truth of it I'm not going to explain...

[KrazyHorse]

You're not going to explain because you simply can't.

[Buster Crabbe's Uncle]

Yes, of course. The world is as simple as you want it to be.

You win the thread.

[KrazyHorse]

Do you really think Children in China are treated better than children in the US or France? Or that us black children(85) are treated as badly as children (including girls mind you) in countries like Egypt or Saudi Arabia(83)?

The fact that you think this is a ridiculous assertion makes me laugh.

[KrazyHorse]

Yes, of course. The world is as simple as you want it to be.

You win the thread.

Yes, I do.

You have absolutely no track record on this site as somebody with intellectual honesty and the capacity to think through an issue at anything more than a superficial level.

Strike one against your simply stated opinion carrying any weight at all.

Kuci has such a track record, and in the last 6 months has participated meaningfully in a discussion of this particular issue. This discussion led to a situation in which your view was revealed to be the meaningless prattle that it is.

Strikes 2 and 3.

If you want to be anything other than a joke to the non-***** here then I suggest you do a search for the aforementioned thread, read through the key arguments and think long and hard about what new angle you can contribute, if any.

[Buster Crabbe's Uncle]

Ad hominem, Horse.

Intelligence measurement/testing is a vastly complex issue, as is the very nature of just what intelligence is, and I'm just not invested enough in winning an innerwebs argument to do the work it would take to make my case.

It is a fascinating issue, but not one I find myself interested in discussing with you. Based on your words here, you seem more interested in a [manhood] comparison. Knock yourself out, but please don't expect me to play.

Have a nice day, sir.

[Elok]

Quoted for reference.





It is always amusing to watch the religious attempting to rationalise away the facts when their religion has no room for them. (In your equality-addled mind, everyone is born equal, with equal abilities and equal potential, and the races are not different qualitatively or statistically.)

Sadly, neither reality nor science nor the common sense of the last six thousand years of human history (nor human history, come to think of it) support this view.

Lastly, "racist"? Are you serious? The only reason that that smear worked was because people took it seriously - because they were your co-religionists, and it felt as serious to them as being accused of kufr would to a Muslim. Nobody cares any more - you can utter your juvenile canards until you're blue in the face, and you'll be ignored in all serious discussions on the topic.

You're acting as if repeating this mantra will protect you from the heretic with his dangerous ideas. If you want a sniff of the acrid, sulphurous smell of the "racist" truth, look here.

Are you postulating a belief in human equality as a "religion," or did you somehow get the impression that Moby is a Christian? I think the first one is a little less silly. But not much.

[Elok]

And my opinion, for the record: for the differences between, say, the Congo and the USA to be explained by mean IQ differences would require a gap of about 25 points, minimum. It's much simpler to go with the conventional explanation that Africa's ****ed-up-ness is caused by the fact that until fifty or so years ago most of it was colonies, and before that they were stuck in tribalism. Why they stayed tribal for so long is beyond me. Isolation? Lack of resources? Consult a historian.