Interesting musings on IQ and the Wealth of Nations

[Heraclitus]

AAHZ

Now that you are no longer a communist, do you still have a problem with real nonmalleable differences between human populations? I have no difficulty believing that one human life is one human life regardless of abilities. But many people (my old self included) have a need to somehow demonstrate empirical equality as a precondition for our common humanity. Does spiritual equality (now that you belive in a immortal God given soul) help you reconcile this or would you still call any findings that showed important cognitive racial differences racist?


Note I am not even saying differences in inteligence. As the article shows the average Chinese and Briton may have equal IQs but have different values for the components.


Also dosen't this paint a depressing picture for the future of the third world?

[Heraclitus]

Its no suprise. Conservatives on average do tend toward lower IQs as do religious people (thou these both could be a product of our status signaling, example are South Korean Christians who have higher IQ's than their Buddhist countrymen a pattern that is reversed in the US, even limiting ourselves to just Caucasians! So clearly in the example the East Asian vs. White IQ gap dosen't play a role).


And poverty is of course a vicius cycle, several of the states there have had a generational brain drain. Especially Southern states, also there is some evedence that regardless of race people who live in hotter climates have a slightly lower IQ (about 1 or 2 points if I recall).
There is some evidence for widespread familial retardation among whites in the Apalachian region.

The link between low IQ and criminality has also been well established. As has the link of high IQ to better health and greater income.

And at the end of the day Southern US states have many more NAMs (Non-Asian Minority), escpecially important is the rate of blacks since Hispanics fare better on most metrics and have a crime rate as little as 30% higher than whites of the same socioeconomic status.




I'm really glad you posted this. This is exactly the sort of thing I hoped would get debated. My only comment is that you have to be carefull with international comparisons as they can be tricky.



For a feeler I'll give Lynn's (2002) numbers for average IQ
105 Japan
102 Germany, Austria, Italy
100 UK, China
98 US, France
97 Canada
95 Slovenia (the same as Portugal)
94 Israel
93 Ireland, Greece
90 Turkey, Peru
83 Saudi Arabia, Egypt
72 Kenya, Jamaica, South Africa
66 Zimbabwe
63 Ethiopia


Its quite clear the numbers for Ethiopia nad Zimbabwe are going to get better as will the numbers for Turkey and countries like China. Countries like Ireland, Portugal and South Africa are unlikley to improve much. Actually considering Slovenia is a developed country by international measures our low IQ may well not improve much more (the flynn effect is still measurable tho so there is hope for all countries except Scandinavia and Britain)

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Flynn effect. IQ's are rising around the world.

Treat kids badly. Raise them in poverty or warzones. Deny them encouragement in learning. They will score low IQs.

The environmental impact on IQ scores is profound

[Heraclitus]

Flynn effect. IQ's are rising around the world.

Treat kids badly. Raise them in poverty or warzones. Deny them encouragement in learning. They will score low IQs.

The environmental impact on IQ scores is profound

I agree. I never denied this. In fact if you read my posts I mention the Flynn effect several times. What I am really about is my opinion (which I got by looking at what the experts where saying) that you should not deny IQ has a clearly genetic component, and that its very unlikley that component dosen't have a real world impact and that its nothing short of saying evolution stops at the neck to claim all the races have the exact same natural potential for all mental faculties while we can clearly demonstrate that "whitey can't jump" and other physical diffrences. Don't let PC cloud your judgmenet, pseudoscience is claiming there is something like a master race that excels at everything, but its also pseudoscience to claim that "race is a social construct".


Do you really think Children in China are treated better than children in the US or France? Or that us black children(85) are treated as badly as children (including girls mind you) in countries like Egypt or Saudi Arabia(83)? Also are black children with the same socio-economic status as Asian children living in black majority areas really treated that badly compared to their Asian peers (even those living in black majority area)?


Anyhow culture plays a role. I think that under ideal conditions US blacks (who have 20% white admixture) could probably get to 90. But I also think under ideal conditions US whites would probably be a few points over 100, middle easterners and indians could get to the high 90's and Asians could perhaps reach as high as 110. Blacks in subsaharan africa? Well lets be generous and say 85 (what US blacks currently reach).

Even with these optimistic assumptions this will not change the global trend of inequality. The best Subsaharan Africa can do is what countries like Brazil are today. Third world but not hellhole.

[Drake Tungsten]

What am I supposed to be taking away from Laz's chart besides the obvious fact that the South is a ****hole?

[Heraclitus]

What am I supposed to be taking away from Laz's chart besides the obvious fact that the South is a ****hole?

His point:
Dumbness correlates with poverty. But correlation does not imply causation.

[flash9286]

Anybody iqs by state controlling for race? Best I could find is 8th grade NAEP math scores for white students.

West Virginia 264
Mississippi 275
Alabama 276
Tennessee 276
Kentucky 278
Oklahoma 279
Hawaii 279
Arkansas 281
Louisiana 282
Georgia 284
Iowa 285
Nevada 285
Rhode Island 286
Michigan 286
Utah 287
Florida 287
New Mexico 287
Maine 287
California 287
Missouri 289
Arizona 289
Nebraska 289
Wyoming 290
Indiana 291
Virginia 291
Ohio 292
South Carolina 292
Oregon 292
Kansas 292
New York 293
Idaho 293
Illinois 294
South Dakota 294
Pennsylvania 295
New Hampshire 295
Montana 295
Alaska 295
Delaware 296
Vermont 296
Wisconsin 297
North Dakota 298
Connecticut 298
North Carolina 298
Washington 300
New Jersey 302
Maryland 303
Minnesota 303
Colorado 303
Texas 304
Massachusetts 306

[Theben]

I may be basically immune to even such harsh insluts.

I like harsh insluts.

[Elok]

Those musings were not interesting, you lying sack of crap.

[Berzerker]

Jane, you ignorant slut

Utah kicks ass

and Hawaiians are less violent than us mainlanders

[Kidlicious]

Those musings were not interesting, you lying sack of crap.

I'm guessing you're sucker enough to click the link.

[ZEE]

AAHZ

You are not the only one that feels that way, it appears.

From a thrade at ForumWarz

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

You cut the word "badly" off the bottom of the picture.

[ZEE]

I didn't make the picture

[MOBIUS]

His point:
Dumbness correlates with poverty. But correlation does not imply causation.

I thought it was religiousness directly correlates with dumbness. It has been conclusively proved here on poly that the vast majority of the dumb posters are also the religious ones, for example.

Anyway, none of this stops you from being an out and out racist.