Scientology has every right to be considered a legitimate religion

[MOBIUS]

While I do have to agree with a lot of what you say Asher, I do have to give some credence to what Elok has researched. I've heard a lot of the same wacko crap from what I would consider reasonably reliable sources, and some of the extremes are truly scary. I can only assume that it's part of the reason why it's not more mainstream. And yes I too have a RC background but I no longer practice for a lot of reasons, current issues and past actions, so I think I can say that I'm not as biased.
Now I know a lot of the history of what the church has done for those that left the church or spoke out against them, in the past, but currently it's pretty tame. What the hard core Scientologists are rumored to do is considerably more wacked then current RC practices.

To us atheists, Catholicism is just as wacked as Scientology. Priests f*cking little boys to the extent that it seems virtually systematic - and then the church covers it up and allows them to continue doing it? That's NOW, not massacring the Cathars, or going on endless Crusades...

Hello, but that's far worse than Tom Cruise jumping all over Oprah's sofa...

Not to mention the fact that we're deviating from the OP, where I said to prove that Scientology is not a legitimate religion. No one has remotely come close to convincing us that Scientology should not stand shoulder to shoulder with Catholicism as one of the world's religions...

[Ming]

I have to agree with you... Yeah, there are probably many issues with Scientology, but, it still qualifies as a religion as much as any other religion does.

[Elok]

https://www.xenu.net

It's run by a rather virulent atheist, not a Christian. He, like most people who take the time to investigate the crimes of the "church," finds them far, FAR more objectionable than other religions. The CoS is intrinsically amoral and criminal to an extent that's hard to describe. The decades-long movement against it has united people of all faiths and of none at all. Get educated before you lecture me, Asher.

[Asher]

www.xenu.net

It's run by a rather virulent atheist, not a Christian. He, like most people who take the time to investigate the crimes of the "church," finds them far, FAR more objectionable than other religions. The CoS is intrinsically amoral and criminal to an extent that's hard to describe. The decades-long movement against it has united people of all faiths and of none at all. Get educated before you lecture me, Asher.

You don't get it. I don't like Scientology and I'm sure the religion is full of crazy, illegal, criminal, amoral, etc ****.

The point is, your religion has the same **** in its repitoire. "But no!" you'll say. "They are MORE crazy!" you'll say. Whatever.

The fact that your priest is a nice guy who may or may not molest children with alarming regularity is not relevant. The fact that you don't adhere to the bible strictly as it is written is also not relevant.

The key point here is all religions are loony. Stop pretending like it's just "the other guys'" that are. It bugs the hell out of me when Christians mock or try to discredit other religions. It's like sexists chastising racists...

[MOBIUS]

I bet for every anti CoS website questioning the truth behind its teachings, there are a hundred anti Catholicism sites doing the same thing.

Does that make Scientology a better religion?

[Asher]

This is a good website. I'll spend days reading it from front to back as part of my 'extensive research' into Christianity, then I will debate Elok:

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/

[Asher]

Question: do Scientologists go on witch-hunts, or their equivalent?

[Elok]

Not to mention the fact that we're deviating from the OP, where I said to prove that Scientology is not a legitimate religion. No one has remotely come close to convincing us that Scientology should not stand shoulder to shoulder with Catholicism as one of the world's religions...

Well, what do you suppose makes a religion "legitimate?" It's not like there's a Religion Certifying Board or anything--well, I hear that in some European countries they have government agencies that monitor new religions and label some of them, including the CoS, "dangerous sects" and suppress them, but I don't think that's what you meant.

I don't think it's fair to compare Scientology to Catholicism (or Islam or Hinduism or whatever the hell Bahai is), but not because of belief. Every religious belief sounds nutty to non-believers. Scientology is not respectable because it is intrinsically coercive and unethical. Every person who gets into their mill is systematically brainwashed--real brainwashing, a very long series of hypnotic techniques that can induce hallucinations after a while, not some nonsense about hymns and Sunday school--and then just as systematically squeezed dry of every cent he or she owns. Defaming critics is not just something that happens, it's an established and very thoroughly delineated policy set down by ol' L. Ron, and they have special people to do it. These practices are so thoroughly ingrained that it's simply impossible to be a "good scientologist" except by being one of the poor saps on the very bottom who get sucked empty without doing any harm to anyone else.

[Elok]

You are both being hopeless idiots. Does anyone else have anything intelligent to contribute to the thread?

[Asher]

You are both being hopeless idiots. Does anyone else have anything intelligent to contribute to the thread?

Is that a yes or a no to my witchhunt question?

[Elok]

They already have witches and know where they are. They call them psychiatrists, though they're really survivors of the Marcab Conspiracy or something. And they'd gladly burn all of them at the stake, except they are not physically powerful enough to safely do so.

[Asher]

I don't think it's fair to compare Scientology to Catholicism (or Islam or Hinduism or whatever the hell Bahai is), but not because of belief. Every religious belief sounds nutty to non-believers. Scientology is not respectable because it is intrinsically coercive and unethical. Every person who gets into their mill is systematically brainwashed--real brainwashing, a very long series of hypnotic techniques that can induce hallucinations after a while, not some nonsense about hymns and Sunday school--and then just as systematically squeezed dry of every cent he or she owns. Defaming critics is not just something that happens, it's an established and very thoroughly delineated policy set down by ol' L. Ron, and they have special people to do it. These practices are so thoroughly ingrained that it's simply impossible to be a "good scientologist" except by being one of the poor saps on the very bottom who get sucked empty without doing any harm to anyone else.

You're blind.

What about Mormons? They get rich off their cult-like followers. Recruitment is key there too.

Catholics are less extreme but the guilt mechanic and the suggested tithings are just a thinly veiled way to get control and money.

All religions have started as cults. All religions start as ways for people or organizations to have followers and collect the labour/money from them. The fact that you think yours is righteous by virtue of it being older and more socially acceptable is ridiculous.

[Asher]

They already have witches and know where they are. They call them psychiatrists, though they're really survivors of the Marcab Conspiracy or something. And they'd gladly burn all of them at the stake, except they are not physically powerful enough to safely do so.

See? You guys are more alike than different.

Their psychiatrists are your married gays today, and your witches in the past.

[MOBIUS]

You are both being hopeless idiots. Does anyone else have anything intelligent to contribute to the thread?

* Elok resorts to name-calling, the last bastion of those pwned in intellectual debate.

As to your question of legitimacy, well in a way there is in the US. It's called the IRS and it has conferred upon the CoS tax-exempt status in the same way it does other religious bodies...

And, as Asher says, your only argument against Scientology so far is that (you think) it's nastier and more controlling than Catholicism...

[MOBIUS]

What about Mormons? They get rich off their cult-like followers. Recruitment is key there too.

Catholics are less extreme but the guilt mechanic and the suggested tithings are just a thinly veiled way to get control and money.

Then there's those evil Jehovah's Witnesses who control parents by preventing them from giving their children life-saving blood transfusions.

That's virtually murder...