University/Grad school usefulness

[flash9286]

The university system/grad school system seems to be a pretty ineffective way to train the best and brightest students to join the workforce. I'm pretty sure most of what I have learned since high school I have never used in a practical way. Is the university system/grad school just one big, very expensive, signal that employers like to use? Wouldn't it be more effective just to let employers use general IQ tests to use a signal instead?

[loinburger]

I learned more relevant stuff in grad school than I did in undergrad, because I didn't have to take any more ridiculous gen-eds.

[flash9286]

I've found that law school classes are just as useless as classes in undergrad.

[Jon Miller]

I think for a physics PhD at UMD you are required to take like ~4 classes and pass a couple of tests.

The real point of a PhD is to have a mentor/advisor and be trained in how to do research, preferably to the point where you can begin to initiate yourself (although a lot of PhDs aren't good at this).

The skills involved have nothing to do with how well you are at classes or what your IQ is. It is a much better measurement of your future success... by putting you in a 1-1 relationship with a mentor/advisor and asking you to produce.

JM
(I and most UMD students take far more than 4 classes. I think I took 15 or something, and I would have taken far more if I hadn't had problems. The classes that I did take, even the ones I was serious about, were not of great importance.)

[loinburger]

Yeah, I should amend my post - I learned more useful stuff for my master's than I did during undergrad, but I haven't (and won't) take as many classes for my ph.d as I did for my master's (I didn't even bother taking any classes in compilers, operating systems, graph theory, or anything else directly related to my research, because the courses were too broad and not deep enough - better to skim a text or two and read a ****load of journals on the subjects).

[Jon Miller]

By the way, experience wise a masters is worth 2 years experience and a PhD is worth 5 years experience.

Where a PhD really shines it is opens doors for you. There are a number of jobs which you won't even be considered without a PhD. And others where you will barely be considered without a PhD.

JM
(I took 7.5 years on my PhD.)

[Dinner]

Undergrad seems more of a meal ticket stamp unless you study a hard science and then it really does open some doors. Other then that the really cool advanced stuff is saved for grad programs.

[flash9286]

I think for a physics PhD at UMD you are required to take like ~4 classes and pass a couple of tests.

The real point of a PhD is to have a mentor/advisor and be trained in how to do research, preferably to the point where you can begin to initiate yourself (although a lot of PhDs aren't good at this).

The skills involved have nothing to do with how well you are at classes or what your IQ is. It is a much better measurement of your future success... by putting you in a 1-1 relationship with a mentor/advisor and asking you to produce.

JM
(I and most UMD students take far more than 4 classes. I think I took 15 or something, and I would have taken far more if I hadn't had problems. The classes that I did take, even the ones I was serious about, were not of great importance.)

How many PHDs go into research? Do you think most of what you learned in your PHD program will help you in the job you eventually end up with. If you are going to be a researcher, I would assume it would be very helpful.

[Jon Miller]

I know people who went from physics PhDs to working at:
1. Goldman Sachs
2. Technology Consulting
3. Government Accounting Office
4. Patent Office
5. Google
6. Medical Physicist (non-research)

I could keep on naming positions.

The skills they acquired while getting their PhDs are what made them qualified for those positions.

JM

[KrazyHorse]

I know 4 physics PhDs doing defence consulting work

[Jon Miller]

Yeah, two of my former roommates/good friends have done the same.

After your position, it is the highest paid position I have heard of people getting right after their PhD in the last 2 years.

Intel use to pay above 6 figures for new Physics PhDs 9 years ago, not sure what they do now.

JM

[KrazyHorse]

Intel would only hire a specific type of physics PhD (experimental hard condensed matter?)

[KrazyHorse]

Was that 90k figure you asked me about for defence work?

[Jon Miller]

Yeah, the 90k was defense related.

JM

[KrazyHorse]

IDA or somewhere else? That's where 3 of the 4 work, and I'm actually sort of curious how they pay. My friends are a bit squirrely about that.