Iran rejects US overtures

[rah]

Carter II

[SpencerH]

Yup. I'm hoping for Reagan II as a follow-up.

[Ramo]

This approach set us up as the reasonable party willing to talk, and let the Iranian regime show everyone they're not interested. Setting aside who has what reasons for distrust, I think that helps us if the goal is to get other nations to join us in sanctioning Iran. That's not a goal I would necessarily pursue, but I think it's one the US government will.

Word.

I'm not sure what exactly people think the alternative here is besides trying to call their "we're only interested in nuclear power" bluff. There are basically four options: cutting a deal like the one Obama outlined, acceptance of Iranian nuclear weapons, stronger sanctions, and military action.

Obama's actions were obviously intrinsic to having the first choice happen. If we're going to accept a nuclear Iran (and, say, use that leverage to get concessions out of Iran), eliminating any ambiguity about Iran's intentions is a prerequisite. If we're going to go through stronger sanctions or a military action (which I think would be stupid), calling their bluff gives us a lot more credibility, particularly in terms of public diplomacy.

So what's the right whinging about, exactly?

[rah]

I don't think the right is whining, at least I'm not, about the president's stance here. As noted, his options are limited and none are very good. I'm more laughing at all the people when defending him winning the peace prize using his willingness to talk to Iran as one of the reasons he deserved it, like it was going to make a difference. Just clueless.

[Ramo]

Carter II?

[rah]

Well, so far he's been all "talk" with no results.
His honeymoon period seems to have ended and he has nothing to show for it. He essentially wasted it.
I don't think a comparison to Carter is that far of a stretch, and I hope he sees jibes like this from others and works towards not ending up like he did. We deserve better after all the promise of his campaign.

At least we're not calling him a chimp like the dems did to Bush for 8 years.

[Dinner]

I'm just pointing out that those that think Obama's willingness to talk is going to resolve all our foreign policy issues and usher in an era of world peace, might be a bit overly optimistic.

Who the hell ever claimed that other then exaggerations made by right wing cranks? Seriously, all Obama has said is that we're likely to gain more from talking to people then not talking to them and it appears that has worked. As Arrian pointed out when Bush pushed for sanctions no one backed him (in a real way) largely because the Iranians claimed "they won't even talk to us" but now that excuse is gone. We appear to be the reasonable ones and they appear as the unreasonable ones who broke agreements. Do you think that helps the US's chances of passing international sanctions? I'd say yes more countries will sign on board.

[Ramo]

Given that Carter brokered one of the most important peace agreements in recent history (Israel-Egypt), I'm not sure what your point is.

You say he "wasted" his honeymoon period. What does that even mean? Why do you expect major international agreements to be brokered within a few months after the most internationally toxic American administration, ever, leaves the stage? You can't make fun of the left's messiah complex regarding Obama, and expect miracles at the same time.

[DanS]

Who the hell ever claimed that

The Nobel Committee.

[rah]

If Russia and China sign up then I'll give him credit for a good victory.
And I do agree that being reasonable usually gets better results. (remember that I used to be called the reasonable one )

My problem is all the fawning morons that think it's going to work better than it has or will, and think that Obama invented it. Realistic expectations are in order and news articles like this will hopefully make some people lower their expectations a bit.

[DanS]

I don't have any problem with talking with the Iranians, but it takes two to tango. There's a time and place for everything. The Iranians were not in a position to be receptive. Obama would have known that if he had gauged the situation and posture of the Iranians rather than making the overture on our election timetable.

These opportunities don't come around often -- once every few decades. Not only was Obama's effort wasted, but, barring an Iranian revolution, we won't have the opening even if we have something substantial to say.

Clinton's overtures in the 90s were much better timed and, as I recall, had very broad institutional support here in Washington. The band was starting to play good mood music. Some couples were starting to go out on the dance floor. We were looking deep into each other's eyes and it looked like it was going to happen.

[rah]

You can't make fun of the left's messiah complex regarding Obama, and expect miracles at the same time.

I'm not the one expecting miracles, his followers are. I just expect him to do the things he promised to do. His record on those is pretty bad so far, and the honeymoon seems to be over. I'm willing to reserve judgement till he actually does something. I do really like the man even without agreeing him on a lot of issues. Just like Carter. (who's other efforts in the middle east were not successful and I think you give too much credit to the one with Egypt)

Do you deny that some of his followers have a messiah complex regarding Obama.

[Ramo]

Dan:

It was not at all clear what the Iranians were receptive to. The Islamic Republic was just toppled, leaving the Iranian state very isolated internationally and domestically. It was probably a better opportunity than any other in recent memory. Indeed, some parts of the Iranian state were amenable to the deal (see the negotiators).

As for a "wasted opportunity," that's total nonsense. What political capital was lost? The reason why nothing happened over the past decade wasn't some ridiculous intrinsic negotiation time scale, but because we refused to engage Iran in a substantive way (see the negotiations floated in 2003 through Swiss channels).

[Ramo]

I'm not the one expecting miracles, his followers are. I just expect him to do the things he promised to do. His record on those is pretty bad so far, and the honeymoon seems to be over.

I still am wondering what agreements you expected Obama to broker over the past several months.

[rah]

Actually I think those in power benefit most by having the evil Satan out there to rally the people against. So until they feel that have no worry from the masses, there can't be any real progress.