Obama says will end 'don't ask, don't tell' policy

[MrFun]

You guys need to re-read my post. "in conjunction with" = do both.

[SlowwHand]

If Obama simply uses his authority as commander-in-chief to unilaterally rescind the "don't ask, don't tell" policy, can not a succeeding president simply restore the bigoted policy?

Wouldn't a more permanent rescinding of "don't ask, don't tell" be made by passing such legislation through Congress in conjunction with a signed executive order by Obama?

Imran is saying that Obama should just do it for more show than substance.
One is as good as the other to him.

[Wezil]

I think the military should be 100% women and gay men. Straight men have carried the water on this endeavor for too long. Pay back time.

[SlowwHand]

I'd go for that. Angry women and gays. Who could stand before such force?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Imran is saying that Obama should just do it for more show than substance.
One is as good as the other to him.

Because if Obama signs an executive order saying the military will not discriminate against gays, that's entirely show and has no substance whatsoever

You are a moron.

[Patroklos]

Cue the hysteria from our change-averse posters who are in the armed forces.

As far as I know there are no armed forces members of the OT who are against repealing DADT.

[MrFun]

Imran is saying that Obama should just do it for more show than substance.
One is as good as the other to him.

Slowwy, spewing nonsensical bull**** like this doesn't improve your image.

I can understand Imran's perspective even if I don't agree with it. I'm worried about whether the next president can simply undo Obama's removal of "don't ask, don't tell" without more permanent legislation tied to it.

[SlowwHand]

Exactly. So, it's not nonsensical bull****. You helped my statement more than Imran's.
Idiot. You're all so concerned with telling me that I'm wrong, that you overlook that you agree with me.
Even if you didn't agree with me, that doesn't automatically make me wrong. In a case like this, you just criticize me and look stupid doing it.

[Imran Siddiqui]

doesn't automatically make me wrong

Yes it does. A Executive Order ending DADT would be entirely substance. It would allow gays to be openly out in the military. How is that more show than substance you complete nincompoop?

[Zkribbler]

Sloww is wrong, as usual. Rescind your mea culpa, Guy...

Obama's current position is that Congress has exclusive authority to lift the ban. However, in May 2009, a committee of military law experts at the University of California at Santa Barbara concluded that it is within the authority of the executive branch to discontinue the policy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don%27t_ask,_don%27t_tell

It's very convenient for Obama to claim that its Congress' responsibility to end "don't ask, don't tell", but it isn't actually true.

The Palm Report opines the President has the power to suspend the law, during a period of national emergency, if the personnel requirements of the military require it. It does not opine that the President has the power to repeal the statute.

Obama was a professor of constitutional law. Is it surprising that he therefore views Congress as the policy-making branch of the government and doesn't want to ignore its stated policies?

I'm surprised to see my Republican brothers urging the President to ignore a congressional statute because it clashes with his personal beliefs.

[MrFun]

Exactly. So, it's not nonsensical bull****. You helped my statement more than Imran's.
Idiot. You're all so concerned with telling me that I'm wrong, that you overlook that you agree with me.
Even if you didn't agree with me, that doesn't automatically make me wrong. In a case like this, you just criticize me and look stupid doing it.

Your nonsensical bull**** part is where you said Imran thinks Obama should just do this for "more show than substance." I really don't think Imran thinks that.

[Darius871]

Sloww is wrong, as usual. Rescind your mea culpa, Guy...

Obama's current position is that Congress has exclusive authority to lift the ban. However, in May 2009, a committee of military law experts at the University of California at Santa Barbara concluded that it is within the authority of the executive branch to discontinue the policy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don%27t_ask,_don%27t_tell

It's very convenient for Obama to claim that its Congress' responsibility to end "don't ask, don't tell", but it isn't actually true.

I'd highly recommend against citing Wiki directly, because that paraphrase is disingenuous at best or utter BS at worst. The Palm Center report at p. 5, 12-13 that Wiki cites doesn't assert any such broad executive authority, and instead only noted the narrow exception at 10 U.S.C. § 12305 permitting the President to temporarily "suspend" the policy only so long as Reserve servicemembers are on active duty, meaning his authority ends when their active duty ends and the policy then automatically goes back into effect whether he likes it or not. The Palm Center report openly recognized this limitation and could only argue that gay servicemembers' excellent service during the temporary window an Executive Order might provide would persuade Congress to pass the MREA which would repeal the policy on a permanent basis.

Seeing as "[t]he Congress shall have power to...make rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval forces" couldn't be more clear, there is no way in hell Obama could assert that his general Commander-in-Chief authority would allow an Executive Order to openly violate the statute by purporting permanent effect, and being a former Constitutional Law professor familiar with Jackson's polestar concurrence in Youngstown, Obama damned well knows it. Even the Palm Center report didn't suggest any such thing.

It should also be noted that any Executive Order on this issue, temporary or otherwise, could constitutionally be immediately countermanded by a veto-proof vote in Congress, which is yet another reason why some sort of dealmaking may be necessary.

[Drake Tungsten]

I'd highly recommend against citing Wiki directly

Why? I don't care enough to go any farther. Besides, Wiki seems accurate enough given that you just said the President can undo "don't ask, don't tell" (if not permanently) under the conditions that have been in effect since Obama took office and are likely to persist for years into the future.

[Darius871]

I'd highly recommend against citing Wiki directly

Why? I don't care enough to go any farther. Besides, Wiki seems accurate enough given that you just said the President can undo "don't ask, don't tell" (if not permanently) under the conditions that have been in effect since Obama took office and are likely to persist for years into the future.

I'm just pointing out that the paraphrase is BS. He has no authority to "discontinue the policy" and is only permitted to pause it under certain limited circumstances that very well may cease before his 8 years are up.

That makes Guy's post wrong, Sloww's post right (albeit likely by accident), your calling Sloww wrong wrong, and you presently right now that you recognize how severely circumscribed the Prez's "authority" truly is. Just making sure we're all on the same page from now on.

[Drake Tungsten]

He has no authority to "discontinue the policy"

You just said that he does. He just can't discontinue it permanently.

you recognize how severely circumscribed the Prez's "authority" truly is

Given that the President can discontinue "don't ask, don't tell" without Congressional approval for as long as Reserve servicepersons are on active duty, his authority doesn't seem particularly circumscribed. He can basically discontinue "don't ask, don't tell" for as long as America is at war.