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German parliment revokes convictions for war time deserters.

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  • German parliment revokes convictions for war time deserters.

    I thought this was kind of interesting. I'm not sure if this guy really did feel Hitler's war was wrong and immoral or if he just got cold feet and ran away but either way he's a lucky son of a ***** as most deserters were shot.

    Nazi deserter hails long-awaited triumph

    By Tristana Moore
    BBC News, Berlin

    For almost 20 years, Ludwig Baumann has been fighting for justice, determined to clear the names of all victims of Nazi military justice.

    After a long struggle, on Tuesday, the German parliament revoked the convictions of the last group of victims, those condemned as "war traitors," more than 60 years after the end of World War II.

    Ludwig Baumann joined Hitler's Wehrmacht when he was 19, but he became a pacifist and in June 1942, he deserted, along with his friend Kurt Oldenburg, while they were deployed in France.

    "I didn't want to take part in Hitler's war," Ludwig Baumann told the BBC.

    "I realised it was a criminal and genocidal war," he said.

    Despite his fearlessness, Mr Baumann was caught by the Nazis and sentenced to death for desertion. He was tortured, taken to concentration camps, and was lucky to avoid being executed.

    "We were sentenced to death in Bordeaux. We were tortured while they kept us because we refused to tell the Nazis the names of our friends who helped us - the French resistance fighters," said Mr Baumann.

    "After 10 months we were taken to a concentration camp and then to Torgau, a huge Wehrmacht prison. Around 1,300 of our people were shot dead or died there - and then we were taken to the Eastern Front.

    "Most of our men died, including my friend Kurt Oldenburg. I managed to survive," he added.

    Fight for dignity

    After the war, Baumann says he faced abuse from many Germans who accused him of cowardice. The 87-year-old's conviction for desertion was among those finally annulled by the German parliament in 2002. But those people convicted of what the Nazis described as "wartime treason" were excluded from this ruling.

    "After the war we were always regarded as cowards and traitors. Our opponents in the Bundestag argued that we couldn't be rehabilitated because that would be unjust for all soldiers, and they claimed it would be bad for soldiers' morale in the army," said Mr Baumann.

    "We felt so humiliated. Most deserters and other victims of Nazi military justice died without dignity. But we didn't give up and we continued fighting for our dignity," he said.

    According to historians, around 30,000 people were sentenced to death for desertion or treason by Nazi military tribunals during World War II, and some 20,000 were executed.

    Mr Baumann says the men who were described as "wartime traitors" were not traitors at all.

    "They behaved humanely. Some hid Jews, others helped prisoners - they followed their moral conscience," he said.

    It is a view backed by experts. "These men were not traitors, they were part of the German resistance movement against Hitler," said Johannes Tuchel, the Director of the German Resistance Memorial Centre in Berlin.

    "This is a great day for Germany - finally the last sentences handed down by Nazi courts will be lifted," he said.

    Too late for some

    But the issue of pardoning WWII soldiers has proved to be highly controversial in Germany. For years, many conservative politicians resisted calls for a general rehabilitation, arguing that they did not want to encourage soldiers to betray their comrades.

    Ludwig Baumann founded the Association of Victims of Nazi Military Justice in 1990. Since then, he has been campaigning for an official pardon for the last soldiers who were executed during war for betraying the Nazi regime.

    "For all of us, not just for me, the vote in the Bundestag is the culmination of a long struggle," he said.

    "We never believed we could achieve this because we had so many opponents. But we got there in the end and I'm very pleased," he said.

    The sprightly 87-year-old regrets that many of those that would have benefited from the ruling have not lived to see it passed.

    "I'm on my own now, one of the few survivors. But the fight for dignity was worth it," he says.
    Story from BBC NEWS:
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    Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

  • #2
    The United States pardoned Vietnam-era draft dodgers and deserters a long time ago. I would have thought that Germany had much greater reason to pardon theirs.
    "I say shoot'em all and let God sort it out in the end!

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    • #3
      MUCH greater reason.
      Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
      "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
      He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

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      • #4
        This man is rolling over in his grave.
        Attached Files
        Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/DaveDaDouche
        Read my seldom updated blog where I talk to myself: http://davedadouche.blogspot.com/

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Dr Strangelove View Post
          The United States pardoned Vietnam-era draft dodgers and deserters a long time ago. I would have thought that Germany had much greater reason to pardon theirs.
          Dude, he deserted to the French. That's far worse in Germany than fighting for Hitler
          “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
          - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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          • #6
            Was he a communist or what?

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            • #7
              Ludwig Baumann, eh? 'Baum' means 'tree' in german. This is no surprise. Trees are well known for their cowardly pacifism in the face of lumberjacks.

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              • #8
                Ah ha, but 'ann' means 'not', as in 'anisotropy'. Baumann, then, means 'not a tree', and your theory is 'wrong', i.e. 'not right'.

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                • #9
                  @ThoseLast5Ignorants: You have no idea what you're rambling on about.

                  This was long overdue... and a sign of the duplicity with which many Germans even today still view the Third Reich era.

                  Thanks Oerdin for posting this.
                  Last edited by JEELEN; September 9, 2009, 05:27. Reason: typo

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Oerdin View Post
                    I thought this was kind of interesting. I'm not sure if this guy really did feel Hitler's war was wrong and immoral or if he just got cold feet and ran away but either way he's a lucky son of a ***** as most deserters were shot.
                    Time may be an indication.
                    June 42.
                    The third Reich was at it's apogee end 41 (before being stopped in front of Moscow). But in June 42, the war is far from being lost.
                    Yes, germany is now at war against the USA, but americans haven't set a foot in North Africa yet (Operation Torch, November 42).
                    Summer 42 is also the time for the second German offensive in the east. They will push it to Stalingrad, which will fall only beginning of 43.
                    The 21st of June 1942, the Afrika Korps takes Tobruk for the second time. Brits will retake it only in november 42. So, things are going quite well in North Africa.
                    I am not a specialist of the atlantic war, so a quick google search indicates that indeed things are going bad for the germans there, but I am not sure Ludwig nor any german is aware of the full truth yet.

                    In short, that guy deserted after Moscow 41, but before operation Torch, before El Alamein, before Stalingrad, before Kursk and while there are still a few U-Boots lurking in the atlantic; he deserted at what seems to be one of the best moment for the third reich.

                    map of Europe in 1942
                    The books that the world calls immoral are the books that show the world its own shame. Oscar Wilde.

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                    • #11
                      Most deserters - as indicated in the OP - simply didn't agree with Hitler's war. (In fact, many Germans were as surprised as the Poles when war broke out on September 1, 1939; when things went well, most Germans cheered, but after Stalingrad the writing was on the wall. Even so, there were still virulent Nazis around in May 1945, when Berlin was about to fall. And despite the post-war Nazi ban, neonazi fringe groups are alive and kicking in Germany today. But I reckon most common folk were simply ashamed of what happened during 1933-'45, with their apparent approval; actual resistance during the Nazi era was limited to some very brave men and women...)

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                      • #12
                        Germans still haven't learned their lessons. They assist in torture and desecrate graves in Afghanistan.

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                        • #13
                          Isn't that the US?
                          Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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                          • #14
                            http://www.spiegel.de/international/...503589,00.html

                            http://www.spiegel.de/international/...444610,00.html

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