Management and Ethics

[rah]

But that doesn't matter. The supposed good guy can go over the edge too. A job terminination is one of the most highly stressful situations where the outcome is always unpredictable. A good manager plans for the worst. And the means protecting yourself and the company. In IT this is quite common due to the sensitivity of the information that we're tasked with guarding. I've had security escort out employees let go if I believed there was a risk. (which is the norm not the exception) I would be negligent in my duties if I did otherwise.

We also had call center operations. The class of employee is usually quite lower than a lot of businesses. Take any group of (paid just above minimum wage) employees and I'll guarentee that there are one or two just waiting to go postal. We ran 24/7. If we had a suspect termination during 3rd shift we'd arrange escorts for out female supervisors to walk them to their cars in the parking lot to avoid and possible retaliation. Even if it was just a RIF and not for cause. The larger the pool of people the better the odds that you have at least one pyscho in the group. Safety first.

[Grandpa Troll]

Who believes these stories are really about "people Rah worked with"?

I do

For real, without many details, both rah and Ming, although they lost the Presidency to Wigstaff/Asher, I think they are very intelligent and have a lot of real world experience with people.

Being a manager is often unrewarding.

Many hours, often even at home you are on call handling situations.

You get accused by subordinates of not doing the best on giving them raises when in fact it is not there to give.

You often get accused of not giving it your all by upper management because someone cut your price below what you felt you do do a job for.

Management has to make hardline decisions based upon imperfect information.

I have allways felt being a manager is like the analogy of the lifeboat.

One lifeboat, no rescue in sight, not sure if anyone knows where you are or if your in trouble.

You have 15 people in a lifeboat, rations for 12.

Everyone can trim up some and allow others to survive.

But at some point, some are slowing you down, impeding progress.

Hard choices but you just have to make a decision.

Recently, the economic turn down, we had to take our busiest area, let go 4 members of management and 48 employees, just before Christmas. The economy went in the tank, we were doing 35 % of what we had been doing for 15 years, for 2 years in a row. We were hemoragging.

It sucks, but it had to be.

It was not the companies fault, it was not poor management on our part, the economy just fell apart.

Yes we saw it coming and tried to hold out for better days, but they just got worse. The writing was on the wall, but

The point was it was costing the company a lot of money with no remedy in sight for a fix or solution to this issue. I really felt bad, it could have been me and my area. People come and ask me how long our area is going to be wide open, I tell them as long as funding is going strong with the military. I have seen it dry up with no notice, hopefully all will be well here.

Gramps

[rah]

Sometimes being king is good and sometimes it sucks.
Telling an employee that has been loyal to you that he's been cut is the most heart wrenching thing that I've ever done. Knowing that those you let go have families is hard.

Granted, when firings are deserved, it's easier and a couple I actually enjoyed, but most are for reasons different then cause. No joy can be taken for those.

[MikeH]

I was trying (and obviously failing) to imply that he was actually the crazy employee in each case.

[rah]

To be honest, I have been on the receiving end of "being let go".
And I'm sure at least one of my bosses thought I was, what's the phrase I'm lookin for, oh, completely bat****.

[Az]

The justification given in support of this behavior is based on Utilitarianism and Free Market ethics; management is responsible for protecting the shareholders interests in maintain profit, it is for the greater good that those affected not know until it is deemed necessary by management. Bull****.

ahh, MBA management ethics classes, where the **** jock *******s + revenge-of-the-nerds "heh plebs" junior high-tech management douchebag students really, ahem, shine. We had a really good professor for this one, and Utilitarian theory wasn't raped by him. If you studied it in a similar way I did, you'd have the concept of a "stakeholder", a framework in which decisions shouble be made, and a brief analysis of power in corporate structures. We have clearly discovered that "protection of shareholders" is usually a piss-poor excuse for management, which actually usually holds more sway than shareholders ( especially when those aren't tycoons but are financial institutions, pension funds, the micro-investor class, etc.) Great cases, with enviromental protection issues, fraud, the sircumvension of regulation... Utility shines in these cases, smashing all nefarious plots.

Of course, a lot of the population of the bussiness school thought that the course was boring and moralizing. I hope they all die . At least some of them were quite upfront about it. "I am not a moral person", one said to me.

I really prefer those Gordon Gecko wannabes over people who are dishonest intellectually.

[Dauphin]

Wait, they can lay you off with no notice and no redundancy pay?

That's terrible. Socialism FTW.

Consultation periods followed by notice periods.

I get three months notice, and have to give three months. It works for me for job security, works for them in terms of guaranteeing any job handovers/closedowns.

If someone is manual or unskilled labour or in an otherwise easily extricated job position I can understand the desire to simply fire on the spot.

[Japher]

rah doesn't seem to separate termination between layoffs and firings though

[rah]

HUH?

The person is still without work and still has to support a family. No difference
If we layoff they usually get a serverance package.
If we fire for cause, they take us to labor court and win unemployement and sometimes their job back.
Difference.

I don't think I'm confused here.