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Gog, Magog and the Wars

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  • Gog, Magog and the Wars



    Biblical Prophesy and the Iraq War
    Bush, God, Iraq and Gog


    By CLIVE HAMILTON

    The revelation this month in GQ magazine that Donald Rumsfeld as Defense Secretary embellished top-secret wartime memos with quotations from the Bible prompts a question. Why did he believe he could influence President Bush by that means?

    The answer may lie in an alarming story about George Bush’s Christian millenarian beliefs that has yet to come to light.

    In 2003 while lobbying leaders to put together the Coalition of the Willing, President Bush spoke to France’s President Jacques Chirac. Bush wove a story about how the Biblical creatures Gog and Magog were at work in the Middle East and how they must be defeated.

    In Genesis and Ezekiel Gog and Magog are forces of the Apocalypse who are prophesied to come out of the north and destroy Israel unless stopped. The Book of Revelation took up the Old Testament prophesy:

    “And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle … and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.”

    Bush believed the time had now come for that battle, telling Chirac:

    “This confrontation is willed by God, who wants to use this conflict to erase his people’s enemies before a New Age begins”.

    The story of the conversation emerged only because the Elysée Palace, baffled by Bush’s words, sought advice from Thomas Römer, a professor of theology at the University of Lausanne. Four years later, Römer gave an account in the September 2007 issue of the university’s review, Allez savoir. The article apparently went unnoticed, although it was referred to in a French newspaper.

    The story has now been confirmed by Chirac himself in a new book, published in France in March, by journalist Jean Claude Maurice. Chirac is said to have been stupefied and disturbed by Bush’s invocation of Biblical prophesy to justify the war in Iraq and “wondered how someone could be so superficial and fanatical in their beliefs”.

    In the same year he spoke to Chirac, Bush had reportedly said to the Palestinian foreign minister that he was on “a mission from God” in launching the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan and was receiving commands from the Lord.

    There can be little doubt now that President Bush’s reason for launching the war in Iraq was, for him, fundamentally religious. He was driven by his belief that the attack on Saddam’s Iraq was the fulfilment of a Biblical prophesy in which he had been chosen to serve as the instrument of the Lord.

    Many thousands of Americans and Iraqis have died in the campaign to defeat Gog and Magog. That the US President saw himself as the vehicle of God whose duty was to prevent the Apocalypse can only inflame suspicions across the Middle East that the United States is on a crusade against Islam.

    There is a curious coda to this story. While a senior at Yale University George W. Bush was a member of the exclusive and secretive Skull & Bones society. His father, George H.W. Bush had also been a “Bonesman”, as indeed had his father. Skull & Bones’ initiates are assigned or take on nicknames. And what was George Bush Senior’s nickname? “Magog”.

    Clive Hamilton is a Visiting Professor at Yale University He can be reached at: mail@clivehamilton.net.au.

    Notes.

    Jocelyn Rochat, ‘George W. Bush et le Code Ezéchiel’, Allez Savoir!, No. 39, September 2007

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    George Bush has claimed he was on a mission from God when he launched the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq, according to a senior Palestinian politician in an interview to be broadcast by the BBC later this month. By Ewen MacAskill.
    Last edited by chequita guevara; August 7, 2009, 13:19.
    Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

  • #2
    Even more interesting:

    "Magog" is the nickname given to the Skull & Bones initiate with the most sexual experience.

    Pappy Bush was a player.




    I read this yesterday. Until I actually hear it from Chirac's own mouth, I remain a bit skeptical.

    I've always thought of Bush as a cynic of, at best, average intelligence. This would make him an out and out loon.
    "My nation is the world, and my religion is to do good." --Thomas Paine
    "The subject of onanism is inexhaustable." --Sigmund Freud

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    • #3
      Someone been playing a little too much WiC, eh?
      You just wasted six ... no, seven ... seconds of your life reading this sentence.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Guynemer View Post
        I read this yesterday. Until I actually hear it from Chirac's own mouth, I remain a bit skeptical.
        The story has now been confirmed by Chirac himself in a new book, published in France in March, by journalist Jean Claude Maurice.


        Ok, so it's just another guy quoting Chirac, but still.
        Unbelievable!

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        • #5
          Not sure if I'm more surprised that the author is surprised or that Bush actually brought this up to Chirac.

          My impression is that apocolyptic Judeo-Christian beliefs do't really allow for us mortal actors to head this off. Is that correct?

          Reagan also believed in this last days stuff; and made many foreign policy decisions based on this. He apparently didn't tell foreign heads of state about that.
          No matter where you go, there you are. - Buckaroo Banzai
          "I played it [Civilization] for three months and then realised I hadn't done any work. In the end, I had to delete all the saved files and smash the CD." Iain Banks, author

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          • #6
            I don't see how these people expect that they understand it all...

            And I do think that Christ will come again in the next 100 years.

            JM
            (If not, we will either 'destroy' this world (pollution or warfare) or go through a singularity. In any case, the future of 100 years from now will be radically different from what exists now.)
            Jon Miller-
            I AM.CANADIAN
            GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

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            • #7
              I don't see how these people expect that they understand it all...

              And I do think that Christ will come again in the next 100 years.

              JM
              (If not, we will either 'destroy' this world (pollution or warfare) or go through a singularity. In any case, the future of 100 years from now will be radically different from what exists now.)
              Jon Miller-
              I AM.CANADIAN
              GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

              Comment


              • #8
                Any reason for that assertion?
                Speaking of Erith:

                "It's not twinned with anywhere, but it does have a suicide pact with Dagenham" - Linda Smith

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Jon Miller View Post
                  In any case, the future of 100 years from now will be radically different from what exists now.)
                  Going out on a limb.
                  "In the beginning was the Word. Then came the ******* word processor." -Dan Simmons, Hyperion

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Provost Harrison View Post
                    Any reason for that assertion?
                    Which one?

                    The second two would require a change in our understanding of Christianity. That is reason enough to expect Christ's return in the same general timeframe as such a huge shift.

                    Many many people are concerned about environmental impact and wars. I am not so much concerned about global warming, although it is a factor, but more about water use/etc. Wars are obvious.

                    The singularity is probably the least sure thought (based off my assumptions, if you aren't a Christian obviously Christ returning would be). But as long as we don't start running into problems with computational power and what we are capable of, I see AI or nano-machines or huge biological changes or mind/machine interfaces or some combination in the next 100 years.

                    JM
                    Jon Miller-
                    I AM.CANADIAN
                    GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Koyaanisqatsi View Post
                      Going out on a limb.

                      Unbelievable!

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by chequita guevara View Post
                        There is a curious coda to this story. While a senior at Yale University George W. Bush was a member of the exclusive and secretive Skull & Bones society. His father, George H.W. Bush had also been a “Bonesman”, as indeed had his father. Skull & Bones’ initiates are assigned or take on nicknames. And what was George Bush Senior’s nickname? “Magog”.


                        Not that I have any complaints with Bush I. The full story on Bush II however...
                        Captain of Team Apolyton - ISDG 2012

                        When I was younger I thought curfews were silly, but now as the daughter of a young woman, I appreciate them. - Rah

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Darius871 View Post
                          The story has now been confirmed by Chirac himself in a new book, published in France in March, by journalist Jean Claude Maurice.


                          Ok, so it's just another guy quoting Chirac, but still.
                          Second, third hand stuff. I'd like to see Chirac confirm the statement.

                          I'm as big a Bush detractor as there is here, but this just seems completely howling at the moon bat****.
                          "My nation is the world, and my religion is to do good." --Thomas Paine
                          "The subject of onanism is inexhaustable." --Sigmund Freud

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            It's not entirely unseemly to think that this endtime fascination played a part in Bush' warmongering. His religious convictions are well known, and his discourse is punctuated with 'religious speak'. Of course other factors, economical and geopolitical in particular, undoubtedly played more important roles...
                            "An archaeologist is the best husband a women can have; the older she gets, the more interested he is in her." - Agatha Christie
                            "Non mortem timemus, sed cogitationem mortis." - Seneca

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                            • #15
                              And by that, do you mean "oil"?

                              I, too, reserve judgment until such time as Chirac confirms it in a more mainstream source. IIRC The Guardian (the only one of those URLs I recognize) isn't exactly prime journalism. I suppose it's possible for GWB to be that loony, but it won't change my opinion of him much. It might almost improve it; before I thought he invaded Iraq at complete random, or for no reason whatsoever. If this is true, he invaded Iraq for a very concrete reason that happens to be really stupid.
                              1011 1100
                              Pyrebound--a free online serial fantasy novel

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