Question About Buddhist Beliefs

[Seeker]

I am limiting this question to Buddhism as laid out in the Pali language texts, and mostly preserved in Theraveda, i.e. Buddhism without all the saints and gods and hells and crap.

Why should we avoid suffering, and why is the absence of suffering desirable?

It seems to me that the classical Greek position of moderation in all things makes more sense, and that human beings require some suffering so that joy can exist.

A human being that does not suffer at all would seem to me a dead, useless thing, not human at all. Let's hear it for Samsara!

[chequita guevara]

The point of Buddhism is becoming permanently dead.

[Felch]

Maybe Buddha would have been better off as a political dissident in Stalin's Soviet Union.

[chequita guevara]

If he failed to achieve Nirvana, he'd just be reincarnated.

[SlowwHand]

I am limiting this question to Buddhism as laid out in the Pali language texts, and mostly preserved in Theraveda, i.e. Buddhism without all the saints and gods and hells and crap.

Why should we avoid suffering, and why is the absence of suffering desirable?

It seems to me that the classical Greek position of moderation in all things makes more sense, and that human beings require some suffering so that joy can exist.

A human being that does not suffer at all would seem to me a dead, useless thing, not human at all. Let's hear it for Samsara!

There are people that pay to suffer. What are you doing? Looking for a freebie?

[Drake Tungsten]

I just un-ignore Sloww's posts when I want to suffer.

[aneeshm]

I am limiting this question to Buddhism as laid out in the Pali language texts, and mostly preserved in Theraveda, i.e. Buddhism without all the saints and gods and hells and crap.

Why should we avoid suffering, and why is the absence of suffering desirable?

It seems to me that the classical Greek position of moderation in all things makes more sense, and that human beings require some suffering so that joy can exist.

A human being that does not suffer at all would seem to me a dead, useless thing, not human at all. Let's hear it for Samsara!

This is an interesting question, one which had occurred to me when I was reading about Buddhism.

The answer is that the word "dukkha" has been mistranslated to mean 'suffering', as there was no equivalent in English for what it meant. The Wiki, however, gives a nice analogy to explain what it does mean. I suggest you read it - it makes everything much, much clearer.

Also of interest to you may be the idea of The Middle Way. Aristotelean 'moderation in all things' is not a concept unique to the Greeks. I would say it is a human universal.

[Seeker]

The Middle Way etc are pretty basic, but thanks for the link on dukkha. Didn't know about that.

Interesting. I still don't get why it should be our goal to get rid of dukkha. What is the difference between Nirvana and a successful suicide?

For a Buddhist, suicides are still trapped in samsara, but a Buddha is just, like, really really good at committing suicide? He's so good at killing himself that he actually succeeds?

[SlowwHand]

I will say this, seriously, you're correct in that without suffering bad times, good would be meaningless.

[Seeker]

Actually, as far as supernatural 'ultimate reality' mysticism goes, some schools of hindu thought (in the Upanishads) were very interesting to me, but when you try to really get into it and study it you keep running into 'the dross of human existence' when you realize how much ethnic, regional, and human rivalries are bound up in Vishnu, Shiva, and Krishna and which one is the real Big Daddy.

The basic proposition in the texts after the Rig Veda, when they got rid of a lot of the Agni/Soma ritualistic nonsense and the Indra sky-daddy lost prominence and it became more 'philosophical' is interesting. Pure speculation, of course, but interesting.

The idea that all is one is intriguing, but it seems to beg the question of 'What is the difference between a sufficient illusion and reality?' when it comes to the idea that separation is an illusion we can 'wake up' from.

Buddhism seems to me like the old joke about the doctor who burned the patient to cure the disease. Why didn't someone just say to him 'accentuate the positive, don't dwell on the negative'? instead of 'YES, total obliteration of the self by eliminating all 'attachment' feelings is a GREAT IDEA.'

I LIKE attachment. It makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

[ZEE]

that is why you feel fear of losing them.

[DaShi]

AAHZ is only buddhist because he recently learned that the characters from Dragon Ball are ripped from "Journey to the West." So he thought that was cool.

[Felch]

Makes sense. I'm only a Christian because of Ned Flanders.

[Elok]

So...you want me to kick you in the nuts before I buy you a beer? You'll appreciate it more for dulling the pain.

[Bkeela]

Why should we avoid suffering, and why is the absence of suffering desirable?

I thought such teachings were like a kōan, meant to shock a disciple into an impossible situation which would eventually trigger enlightenment.