[Serious Thread] Organ Donation

[KrazyHorse]

KH, how does it fit with the obvious point that younger people should get organ donations before older people (as the younger person might be good for 40 more years with a new heart, but the old man at 80 might be good for 5-10, non-working, years).

JM

You can begin to take things like this into account, but to the extent that you allow utility to the user to override his "contribution" (in the form of being a registered organ donor) it reduces the incentive to become a registered organ donor.

To the extent that you only use these considerations to distinguish between people who became donors at the same age then there will not be any reduction in incentive.

[Jon Miller]

But do you agree that it would be wasteful to give someone who had 70 years of being an OD a new heart rather than a 20 yearold who wasn't an OD?

I think we should just force everyone to be ODs, actually.

At the very least it should be default.

JM

[KrazyHorse]

But do you agree that it would be wasteful to give someone who had 70 years of being an OD a new heart rather than a 20 yearold who wasn't an OD?

Wasteful, yes. But by maintaining the incentive structure you might well encourage multiple future donations.

[St Jon]

KH, how does it fit with the obvious point that younger people should get organ donations before older people (as the younger person might be good for 40 more years with a new heart, but the old man at 80 might be good for 5-10, non-working, years).

JM

It has only been in relatively recent years that hip replacements have become generally successful enough for the over 70's to be normal practice. The chances of an 80 year old surviving bypass surgery would be small and of a heart transplant close to zero.

This should not mean that a 20 year old should get preference over a 50 year old because he had a greater chance of paying income tax for longer. It is arbitrary and very subjective but chances of recovery and long term benefit are very much in the hand's of the medical staff providing treatment.

The difficulties would be vastly lessened if more organs were available for transplant in the first place and fewer such very hard decisions over who lives or dies were to be faced by clinicians.

[BlackCat]

But do you agree that it would be wasteful to give someone who had 70 years of being an OD a new heart rather than a 20 yearold who wasn't an OD?

I think we should just force everyone to be ODs, actually.

At the very least it should be default.

JM

Well, lets take a hypothetical case. My dad died a couple of years ago - mainly due to infcetions during heart surgery. Now, ignore that, say that it went well, but at 70 his heart begins to **** up again - a transplant could give him some 10 years more (he is about 70). Well being I'm his son, I don't want to see him go away, but it's the way of life - though, my father got into some trouble with a young girl and I have a stepbrother half my age. For me, well, I certainly want my father to live but not beyond reason. Then there are my younger brother - for him, some 10 years more would probably be a good thing.

This is only an example and actually a pretty neutral - my dad couldn't have been saved by a new heart.

[notyoueither]

How is this different than people putting "organ donor" on their licenses?

Also, this sort of fearmongering is overblown.

It isn't automatic.

It isn't going to be an option for the first people to see a patient.

Organ donor cards get discovered later.

The proposal you favour makes it an option from the point that the ambulance rolls up.

[notyoueither]

Well, that would be a criminal act and that is a police matter

Not really. Prove that the EMTs or the docs did not do everything they could.

That is a very high hill for your lawyer or a prosecutor to climb.

[notyoueither]

The issue of turning off life support for those declared brain dead is a separate and very difficult question in its' own right - rather like voluntary euthanasia - and not really part of the point I was making. I agree it does raise huge moral and ethical issues but would do so regardless of organ donation.

Your proposal would make the issue more pressing, since organ confiscation would be an option from the get go.

Declaration of brain deadness after intensive care over a long period of time would not be related.

'This guys dead. And he's cut. Very healthy. Scapal!'

[Dis]

yet another reason not to get married. Like I need any more.