Artists cannot design interfaces.

[-Jrabbit]

CIV III, pretty but it sucked.

PRETTY DOES NOT = Fuctional.

I was going to use this obvious example. There needs to be a synergy between the UI and the actual game structure. The failure of Civ3 was much more about the structure of the game; the fact that it was a major upgrade in graphics is really just a side point. (Well, except for the fact that they invested resources in designing a cool 3D graphics engine at the expense of making sure the game retained the "one more turn" playability of Civ2.)

I'm sure there are also numerous games out there that have both perfect funtionality and gorgeous grafx, yet fail to engage the users sufficiently to keep them coming back.

Personally, I could care less about the graphics. I mean, Asteroids was totally minimalist by today's standards, but when I got ahold of a copy last year, I got sucked in for hours, just like back in the day. Now that's good design.

[Asher]

Thanks Asher, it's good to know.


But I hope you don't think you have convinced me you're right. My argument still stands, if you still remember what it was. In fact, no one has barely even addressed it in this entire thread, kind of sidetracked into artists vs programmers, which was not my argument.

Your argument does not still stand. It was torn down repeatedly in posts you have pointedly ignored.

[MikeH]

I'm not sure he ever coherently expressed whatever he thinks his argument is, but we comprehensively disproved the things he has posted.

[FrostyBoy]

Try to read the thread fully.

Here it is again, bolded and red, so that you don't ****ing forget it.

My opinion, is that it is better if the designer has stronger artistic abilities if he is designing something that humans must interface with. That's my argument.

Stick to the argument next time, and Asher, you never showed me what you wanted me to address. Fool.

[Asher]

The problem is you've changed your own argument so many times that it's pointless.

Our argument is functionality trumps prettyness. Someone with some artistic ability should be involved on the team creating the UI, but not the person who actually does the work of designing the UI. Designing where to put controls, how to display the information, etc should be done by an HCI expert, not an artist. The artist comes in and puts lipstick on it.

That's how it works in the real world.

[Asher]

I've been on teams where artists create mockups in Photoshop and then the design is to be based around that. It NEVER works right. They have "visions" that are either impractical or impossible, and most of the time they focus on "cool, elegant" effects. **** like a circular menu that "rolls out" from clicking the top left corner on a menu. Yes, it looks cool, but it's a usability nightmare.

If you want to see what happens when you give artists control over UI design, check out virtually every "marketing webpage" for a product. They're typically flash-heavy with awful UIs.

[Japher]

I'm working on designing a database for our company. This is the first time I have ever used database software (filemaker) but I have done a lot of logic design for revision control and document management but never actually done the work itself. I like it. However, I could care less how it looks. All I care is about functionality and data logging. I know no matter what I do for aesthetics sake my boss' tastes will change it, so I'm not even going to bother. If I had some graphics designer telling me how it will work I'd smack 'em up side the head. If you want to make it pretty that's nice, but it's got to work first... not the other way around.

They gave me some example of sort of what they want. It's pretty, but there isn't enough cross-referencing, not hard dating, nothing that owes itself to traceability... So, I'm just taking some of the scripts out of it and using them for my own. Other than that the pretty example was worthless.

[Koyaanisqatsi]

(filemaker)

I'm sorry. Is there anything we can do?

[FrostyBoy]

The problem is you've changed your own argument so many times that it's pointless.

**** you, I never changed my argument. You failed to address it by bringing up other ****, I voiced out on those, but they were in no way defending my original argument. Like that guy said, you move the ****ing goalposts to suit your own needs, but you failed at that too.

You try so hard to convince me you're right, by bringing up your field of work, who you talk to, and so forth, where is the real proof? I gave you actual proof a number of times. You just gave me some stats and wiki quotes. Big deal, it doesn't really prove anything. Show me the results man.

And since it's so important to you, I have had about 20 years experience in this field (that's right, 20, and I am 29). I am currently a creative designer and graphic designer. Like you, I design Interfaces all the time. I know the tricks of the trade, I know what is going on. I have to travel around the world many times year just to solve people's little problems with their hopeless designs. I have the SKILL my friend. You have just a university degree; like I said, you're the system, you're the guy who follows procedure, because without it, you're hopeless.
My argument is that the entire system is in failure, the reason over 90% of all interfaces suck tremendously is BECAUSE the people involved are STRONGER PROGRAMMERS than artists; Do. You. Comprehend. Now. Idiot?
What? Oh, you thought that current facts and figures proves you to be right? You're a tool.

Girls are lucky you're gay. Me on the other hand, not so lucky you're gay. Try to stay away from me, take your small balls and goalposts with you.





ahhh that's better, nothing like telling Asher to **** off at 1am.

[Asher]

Are you for real?

[Caligastia]

I'd like to support a fellow Kiwi, but Asher is right. I'm not even sure what Frostyboy's argument is any more.

Asher, why are you letting Ben goad you? I can only assume that's what he's doing, considering the fact that every post he makes provokes you to rage.

[FrostyBoy]

I'd like to support a fellow Kiwi, but Asher is right. I'm not even sure what Frostyboy's argument is any more.

You don't. You'd have to be in my shoes to understand, to see the problems in the industry.

[Koyaanisqatsi]

You don't. You'd have to be in my shoes to understand, to see the problems in the industry.

[KrazyHorse]

So now FB is not only more qualified than technical people to design a UI, he's also more qualified than sales and marketing to decide what the end user wants/will buy.

[Az]

Physicists are often paid **** in comparison to their rarity. So are many artists, by the way. There are things that highly warp market structures in labor markets. Let it go.

**** thread, by the way. Good job, everybody.