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Healthcare Reform Thread II

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  • Here's an eminently reasonable post by Greg Mankiw...

    Healthcare, Tradeoffs, and the Road Ahead

    Well, it appears certain that the healthcare reform bill will become law. One thing I have been struck by in watching this debate is how strident it has been, among both proponents and opponents of the legislation. As a weak-willed eclectic, I can see arguments on both sides. Life is full of tradeoffs, and so most issues strike me as involving shades of grey rather than being black and white. As a result, I find it hard to envision the people I disagree with as demons.

    Arthur Okun said the big tradeoff in economics is between equality and efficiency. The health reform bill offers more equality (expanded insurance, more redistribution) and less efficiency (higher marginal tax rates). Whether you think this is a good or bad choice to make, it should not be hard to see the other point of view.

    I like to think of the big tradeoff as being between community and liberty. From this perspective, the health reform bill offers more community (all Americans get health insurance, regulated by a centralized authority) and less liberty (insurance mandates, higher taxes). Once again, regardless of whether you are more communitarian or libertarian, a reasonable person should be able to understand the opposite vantagepoint.

    In the end, while I understood the arguments in favor of the bill, I could not support it. In part, that is because I am generally more of a libertarian than a communitarian. In addition, I could not help but fear that the legislation will add to the fiscal burden we are leaving to future generations. Some economists (such as my Harvard colleague David Cutler) think there are great cost savings in the bill. I hope he is right, but I am skeptical. Some people say the Congressional Budget Office gave the legislation a clean bill of health regarding its fiscal impact. I believe that is completely wrong, for several reasons (click here, here, and here). My judgment is that this health bill adds significantly to our long-term fiscal problems.

    The Obama administration's political philosophy is more egalitarian and more communitarian than mine. Their spending programs require much higher taxes than we have now and, indeed, much higher taxes than they have had the temerity to propose. Here is the question I have been wondering about: How long can the President wait before he comes clean with the American people and explains how high taxes needs to rise to pay for his vision of government?



    KH FOR OWNER!
    ASHER FOR CEO!!
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    • Drtake, if you guys have some shooting yards for idiots, I suggest that this guy are sent there
      With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

      Steven Weinberg

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      • Drtake, if you guys have some shooting yards for idiots, I suggest that this guy are sent there





        I'm so glad I un-ignored this cluster**** of a post.
        KH FOR OWNER!
        ASHER FOR CEO!!
        GUYNEMER FOR OT MOD!!!

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        • Originally posted by BlackCat View Post
          Drake, if you guys have shooting yards for idiots, I suggest that this guy is sent there
          Glass houses.

          EDIT: Drake beat me to it.
          If there is no sound in space, how come you can hear the lasers?
          ){ :|:& };:

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          • Originally posted by Drake Tungsten View Post
            Drtake, if you guys have some shooting yards for idiots, I suggest that this guy are sent there





            I'm so glad I un-ignored this cluster**** of a post.

            Oh, so you are one of the firm belivers that this will kill the US ?
            With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

            Steven Weinberg

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            • Originally posted by Hauldren Collider View Post
              Glass houses.

              EDIT: Drake beat me to it.
              Are you joning the ranks of Drake ?
              With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

              Steven Weinberg

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              • Nelson to oppose reconciliation package, cites student lending bill

                Sen. Ben Nelson (D-Neb.) said Monday he would vote against a reconciliation package that included changes to healthcare reform and student lending legislation.

                Nelson said he opposed the package because the student lending bill would make the federal government the originator of student loans, replacing private lending institutions. Nelson said that would cost 30,000 jobs.

                Nelnet, a major student lending company, is based in Nebraska.

                Nelson said he also opposed the reconciliation package because of higher payroll taxes it would place on unearned income.

                The revenue would go into general health funds and Nelson said he would prefer to reserve that source to shore up potential Medicare shortfalls in the future.







                What a dumb****. I hope the Senate passes the reconciliation bill just so Nelson can receive the comeuppance he so richly deserves.
                KH FOR OWNER!
                ASHER FOR CEO!!
                GUYNEMER FOR OT MOD!!!

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                • It seems odd that the student loan companies who are anti the student lending bill use as their reasoning that they are less efficient at lending than the federal government.

                  JM
                  Jon Miller-
                  I AM.CANADIAN
                  GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

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                  • It is hard to take the tea partiers seriously when they undertake an inititive, as they are doing here in Ohio, to amend the state constitution to say that Ohio doesn't have to comply with the health care legislation.

                    If their understanding of American law is that this would actually work, they are considerably dumber than I had previously thought.
                    "My nation is the world, and my religion is to do good." --Thomas Paine
                    "The subject of onanism is inexhaustable." --Sigmund Freud

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                    • I think it maybe to give the state the ability to join the cavalcade of lawsuits being filed against the legistlation.
                      I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
                      For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

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                      • Maybe they're just trying to prove the point that something must be done to limit frivolous medical lawsuits.

                        If you can't laugh, cry.
                        If you can't win, sue.
                        Apolyton's Grim Reaper 2008, 2010 & 2011
                        RIP lest we forget... SG (2) and LaFayette -- Civ2 Succession Games Brothers-in-Arms

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                        • Originally posted by Guynemer View Post
                          It is hard to take the tea partiers seriously when they undertake an inititive, as they are doing here in Ohio, to amend the state constitution to say that Ohio doesn't have to comply with the health care legislation.

                          If their understanding of American law is that this would actually work, they are considerably dumber than I had previously thought.
                          “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                          - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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                          • Originally posted by BlackCat View Post
                            I 'm a bit worried about the future of the american economy. What will happen when there will be a surge of healthy poor people that normally would have died of curable diseases ?
                            They will smoke more crack.
                            I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
                            - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

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                            • Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui View Post
                              They already have thousands of signatures on their petition. The governmental illiteracy of the American public is positively gobsmacking.
                              "My nation is the world, and my religion is to do good." --Thomas Paine
                              "The subject of onanism is inexhaustable." --Sigmund Freud

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                              • Originally posted by Guynemer View Post
                                They already have thousands of signatures on their petition. The governmental illiteracy of the American public is positively gobsmacking.
                                Couldn't it just be considered a precondition to joining the lawsuits of other states, as Dinodoc said?

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