Healthcare Reform Thread II

[Drake Tungsten]

Are you even reading my posts? I clearly said that...

1. America is losing its dominant position in the world (I believe I use the word "supremacy"). It's losing this position because of poor governance and misplaced priorities.

2. Britain lost its dominant position in the world for comparable reasons, ie. concerning itself with the expansion of its empire and not putting enough emphasis on the true sources of national power. The US and Germany surpassed Britain because they did place emphasis on the true sources of national power, arguably because neither had a significant empire to distract them.

3. Britain had already lost its dominant position before WWI. WWI just made clear what was already the case, that the US and Germany were the new world powers and that Britain had slipped from the ranks of the first-rate powers.

Honestly, your fixation on WWI and the Empire confuses me. Both are tangential to my point.

[KrazyHorse]

my fixation? you're the one who brought up WWI, you twit. And if you had any idea of world history you'd know that it was the GERMANS who were obsessed with extending their colonial reach prior to WWI.

[Drake Tungsten]

Empires are a drag on a great power, not a benefit. The Germans may have wanted an empire, but the fact that they didn't have much of one actually worked in their favor. They were able to focus on building their national strength while Britain was busy wasting effort and resources trying to keep the wogs in line.

you're the one who brought up WWI, you twit.

As a symbol of Britain's suicidal tendencies only. The British involvement in WWI was completely retarded, as it was already clear that Germany was significantly more powerful than Britain and a major war would only hasten the British decline.

[KrazyHorse]

Seriously, you've got some bizarre concept of history whereby the Brits could somehow have maintained an industrial edge over the Germans and the US despite the fact that both of these countries were larger than the UK and had similarly educated populations, good governments, etc.

[KrazyHorse]

What the **** are you on about, Drake? Per capita industrial production in Germany and the US weren't much different from that in the UK. They both were going to overtake the UK in total production whenever they industrialized to a similar extent as the UK already had by the middle of the 19th century

The Germans producing more than the Brits is a German story, not a British story

[KrazyHorse]

If only the US didn't have health care reform it could maintain its GDP at a level 3 or 4 times higher than China's. How hard can it be to get 8% real growth in a mature economy?

[Drake Tungsten]

Seriously, you've got some bizarre concept of history whereby the Brits could somehow have maintained an industrial edge over the Germans and the US despite the fact that both of these countries were larger than the UK and had similarly educated populations, good governments, etc.

My point is that Britain didn't even make a good attempt at keeping up with the US and Germany, fell from their dominant position because of it and then decided to throw a million men into the German wood-chipper just to put an exclamation point on their failure. It that's not national suicide, then I don't know what is.

[Drake Tungsten]

Your argument seems to be that Britain was going to get passed by the US and Germany eventually anyway, so we should just ignore all the unforced errors that allowed it to happen sooner than it needed to. That's pretty retarded...

[KrazyHorse]

What the **** sort of unforced errors are you talking about?

WWI was a red herring, as I've already demonstrated.

As for the Empire, Britain wouldn't even be as relevant as it is today if it weren't for the Empire.

[Drake Tungsten]

What the **** sort of unforced errors are you talking about?

Jesus Christ...

How many ****ing times do I need to say that devoting energy to playing the Great Game in Central Asia or taking over vast swathes of worthless African territory was a mistake when you should have been devoting comparable amounts of resources to industrial advancement as the Americans and the Germans?

Britain wouldn't even be as relevant as it is today if it weren't for the Empire.

Britain is only relevant today because of its ties to the United States. It would be less important than Germany and even France without them.

[KrazyHorse]

The Germans and the US were just PLAYING CATCH UP to the UK.

Just like China, India et al are playing catch up to the developed world today. The decline of Britain relative to the US and Germany in the second half of the 19th century has nothing to do with the ****ing Empire.

[Drake Tungsten]

The decline of Britain relative to the US and Germany in the second half of the 19th century has nothing to do with the ****ing Empire.

And you criticized my knowledge of world history...

[KrazyHorse]

Britain is only relevant today because of its ties to the United States. It would be less important than Germany and even France without them.

Don't be ridiculous. Germany and France have absolutely no standing outside Europe, while Britain has independent influence from the US.

[KrazyHorse]

The decline of Britain relative to the US and Germany in the second half of the 19th century has nothing to do with the ****ing Empire.

And you criticized my knowledge of world history...

How could I criticize something so obviously nonexistent?

[Drake Tungsten]

Germany and France have absolutely no standing outside Europe

Europe is a major international player. The fact that France latched itself onto Germany and got itself a leadership position in the EU is the reason why France is more relevant than the UK.

while Britain has independent influence from the US.

Controlling Canada and New Zealand isn't very impressive.

How can I criticize something so obviously nonexistent?