Serious Thread - New British Aircraft Carriers

[Lonestar]

The Falklands War is exactly why Britain needs this. It showed quite conclusively that its carrier program was a relative failure. Sure they were able to carry the day in the end, but there should have been no contest. British surface combatants were level bombed for Christ's sake!

Oh, no doubt, but a good part of the reason was because RN surface combatants had really crappy AAW assets. Even if the RN somehow got both carriers, with less than 20 escorts in the fleet by the time they enter service it calls into question the RN's ability to repeat the Falklands War. If I were King, and the budget came down to 2 CVFs or 5 T45 DDGs(as opposed to both) I would pick the 5 T45 DDGs.

The UK has basically abdicated it's global role, and as the OP indicates, it's populace is sufferering from last-war-itis big time. It's assuming that it will always be able to get from Point A to Point B without a challenge on the high seas, forgetting that the weight of historical trends is on the side of nations that make large investments in navies, instead of armies to chase *******s around the mountains in Central Asia.

[Zevico]

Proportionately though, no other Western country holds a candle to US defence spending. But the real question is whether each country is spending 'enough' for its perceived defence needs [and that is something very subjective in some cases].

[Patroklos]

Oh, no doubt, but a good part of the reason was because RN surface combatants had really crappy AAW assets. Even if the RN somehow got both carriers, with less than 20 escorts in the fleet by the time they enter service it calls into question the RN's ability to repeat the Falklands War. If I were King, and the budget came down to 2 CVFs or 5 T45 DDGs(as opposed to both) I would pick the 5 T45 DDGs.

Oh, I agree with you there. The CSG is a package deal, if you are going to have your own carriers but still require allies to provide even basic screening duties you have defeated the purpose of buying your own carriers as you still don't have independant carrier capability in reality. Thats fine if you do not intend to operate entirely independantly but rather just want more control, I am not sure which way Britain is headed.

The last few white papers and Jane's additions have been justifiable scathing to the RN. I really don't have any idea what the hell they are thinking.

[Asher]

Ahem

Defense Budget (in Billions)
United States of America 527.660
United Kingdom 59.638
France 54.592
Germany 38.145
Italy 33.454

Ok, Germany may be freeloading a bit (for a country of its size) and other EU countries probably are. But France sure as hell isn't and I think Italy isn't doing too bad either.


I do agree with you that we Euros need to stop freeloading thou, but you must understand that as long as NATO exists no Euro country in it will feel any real incentive to provide basic defense for itself.

Defense spending per capita:
USA: $1,724
UK: $980
France: $859
Germany: $460
Italy: $567
Canada: $378

[BeBMan]

Carriers are old style. Build Battlestars.

[Asher]

Canada focuses on building culture bombs, like Celine Dion and Nickelback and subversive spy devices that can explode on remote command, like the Blackberry.

Think about it. Virtually every US politician and business exec carries one of those devices on his/her hip at any time, and uses it to send all kinds of information. All of which route through Blackberry servers. Even your President has been infiltrated.

Canada's so far ****ing ahead of you guys in Modern Warfare 2.0 that you don't know what to do with yourself. All these carriers will prove to be useless when your government and industrial sector are crippled by simultaneously exploding Blackberries.

Then we'll keep your morale low by playing Celine Dion and Nickelback on your radio waves.

[MikeH]

These arguments do not come merely from those who would oppose Military Spending on principle but also from senior members of the Defence Staff as well as from within the the MoD itself.

Yeah, the Army and Airforce certainly think the money could be better spent...

[Patroklos]

Canada's so far ****ing ahead of you guys in Modern Warfare 2.0 that you don't know what to do with yourself. All these carriers will prove to be useless when your government and industrial sector are crippled by simultaneously exploding Blackberries

Wait a second, you think instakilling all our current politicians and buisness leaders will hinder us? I think we should declare war on Canada immediately

[dannubis]

Canada focuses on building culture bombs, like Celine Dion and Nickelback and subversive spy devices that can explode on remote command, like the Blackberry.

Think about it. Virtually every US politician and business exec carries one of those devices on his/her hip at any time, and uses it to send all kinds of information. All of which route through Blackberry servers. Even your President has been infiltrated.

Canada's so far ****ing ahead of you guys in Modern Warfare 2.0 that you don't know what to do with yourself. All these carriers will prove to be useless when your government and industrial sector are crippled by simultaneously exploding Blackberries.

Then we'll keep your morale low by playing Celine Dion and Nickelback on your radio waves.

The evil evil fins beat you to the idea...

[Asher]

No one uses Nokia over here. The few people that do are retarded hipsters.

We're too smart for Nokia. ****ing god-awful phones with hideous interfaces and even worse programming environments.

And Finland has precisely zero popular musicians out here.

[dannubis]

1. My nokia never craps out on me when I am driving. My crapberry all the time
2. The fins have their viking music. Talk about undermining morale.
3. And even if your argunets hold that still only equates you to the level of the Japanese, never an original tought but masters in perfecting other peoples ideas.

, really