Constitutionality of Delegating Authority to Independent Agencies (or: Calling BS on Zaku)

[KrazyHorse]

That would be a bit blatant, even for us. I can see an engineer writing something like that.

[Kuciwalker]

People who believe that gold, silver, or any other metallic form of currency is somehow OBJECTIVELY worth something amuse the heck out of me.

Do go on, zaku!

-Arrian

Gold is an important component in many electronics that's pretty close to objective worth.

[Kuciwalker]

Zaku, can you envision a situation where you go to the bank and give them your dollar and they say "sorry, but we don't think a dollar is worth a dollar, so we're only giving you half a dollar back for the dollar you gave us"? Can you honestly hold that thought in your mind without feeling immense pain at the logical contradiction?

[KrazyHorse]

This entire conversation reminds me of a post on an econ blog about the solvency of central banks.

The liabilities of the Royal Bank, the Bank of Montreal, and all the other commercial banks are redeemable, mostly for Bank of Canada paper money. That paper money, the so-called liability of the Bank of Canada, is not redeemable, and hasn't been for decades. If I go to the Bank of Montreal, clutching my cheque book, and demand my money back, they are required to give me Bank of Canada money. If I go to the Bank of Canada, clutching a $20 bill, and demand my money back, I think they would just call security

[Arrian]

Gold is an important component in many electronics that's pretty close to objective worth.

Hush, you! I know gold has its practical applications. It's cash value is partially a reflection of that, but it's also a reflection of "oooh, shiny!"

-Arrian

[KrazyHorse]

Mostly the latter. By far the largest use of gold is jewellery, followed by central bank/treasury/government reserves.

[Wezil]

Here's a thousand dollars, you bastards. Now WHERE'S MY MONEY?

Thanks.

[KrazyHorse]

Come back, zaku. We love you....

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

That would be a bit blatant, even for us. I can see an engineer writing something like that.

Hey stop that I resemble that remark.

[Solomwi]

Zaku's actually arguing far beyond what you guys are saying, and into quantum economics, which, of course, tells us that we can't discern the value of a dollar note until we observe it (i.e., try to exchange it for something else). Don't even get him started on superposition of values. KH, I thought you, of all people, would have recognized the advanced theories he was putting forth.

[KrazyHorse]

I actually know some quantum finance. Not kidding.

[SlowwHand]

Not very well.

[KrazyHorse]

The sad part is I thought I invented the idea. Then I did a literature search and found out other people had thought of it first.

But the original work on it is only from ~a decade ago so I actually felt pretty good about that.

[Darius871]

To start, read the top of an American note. What agency's name is there?

The FED doesn't print money, it creates it or more along the lines of limits its creation in the lower banks. Money is not created by the Treasury, notes that honor the invisible funds are just pieces of paper, banks create money out of thin air. So cash is worthless since the gold value was eliminated. It is basically like me handing you a piece of paper that says $50 and my name signed on it, you have only my word that it is worth $50.

The Constitution allows for the government to coin money. This term is said to have been modified to accept printing of money, but this is open to debate. To coin money is to press gold or silver into coins and it is worth its real weight. The government is able to coin money, the Federal Reserve has been delegated to control the paper currencies value. If you look at the list of controlling banks of the Federal Reserve they are all privately owned banks, hence the private corporation that reports as a federal agency. The government does not, by word of the Constitution, have the power to delegate the pressing of coins to a non-government agency, so the Treasury still prints the money...but the Fed actually controls it. Loophole.

On June 4, 1963, a virtually unknown Presidential decree, Executive Order 11110, was signed by President Kennedy. This order basically stripped the Fed of its power of loaning money to the US gov with interest, with this order he was going to put the Fed out of business. This executive order has never been repealed, replaced, amended, or superseded by any executive order...meaning it is still valid. It says all sorts of great things, a fine point is that the gov can and will only issue silver certificates to the exact values of silver and silver bullion by the treasury. Money would be introduced backed only by what is physically held. The notes that were issued back then were inked in red and said United States Note on top. After November 22nd and JFK's assassination the red notes were removed from print and slowly drifted away into history. 99% of currency in circulation now reads Federal Reserve Note. This order would have killed the Fed, but instead he was killed and the order has since just been ignored.


This post is long enough, and answers part of why the petitions to abolish the 1913 Federal Reserve Act have so many signatures.

So, in other words you're a gutless coward afraid to answer my questions directly. Good, just wanted to make sure once again.

[Darius871]

Considering how far off the OP this quickly became, I'm now thinking this is BenK's dl.

it was all part of Darius's plan.