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  • When is a coup legal?

    WA
    SHINGTON -- President Obama on Monday declared that the United States still considers Manuel Zelaya to be the president of Honduras and assailed the coup that forced him into exile as "not legal," deepening the chasm between the Central American nation and much of the rest of the world.

    "It would be a terrible precedent if we start moving backwards into the era in which we are seeing military coups as a means of political transition rather than democratic elections," Obama said in the Oval Office after meeting with Colombian President Alviro Uribe. "The region has made enormous progress over the last 20 years in establishing democratic traditions in Central America and Latin America. We don't want to go back to a dark past."

    Leaders from across the Western Hemisphere and beyond called for return to power of Zelaya, who arrested on Sunday morning by soldiers who stormed his residence and forced him into exile. The country now has another president appointed by its Congress, Roberto Micheletti, who insisted that Zelaya was legally removed by the courts and Congress for violating Honduras' constitution and attempting to extend his own rule.

    "We are very clear about the fact that President Zelaya is the democratically elected president," Obama said.

    The United States, he said, will work the Organization of American States and other bodies to try to resolve the conflict peacefully.

    The OAS was holding an emergency session on the crisis Tuesday.
    What Berry has failed to notice is that the Congress and Supreme Court of Honduras called for his removal of power. Zelaya was trying to amend the constitution to allow him to stay in office for a second term.
    Honduran Congress voted him out of office, replacing him with the president of Congress, Roberto Micheletti.

    The military offered no public explanation for its actions, but the Supreme Court issued a statement saying that the military had acted to defend the law against “those who had publicly spoken out and acted against the Constitution’s provisions.”
    Now we have Berry who says that Zelaya is still President and that the coup was illegal. Isn't illegal coup kind of an oxymoron? When a leader usurps power and the rest of the government authorizes his removal...isn't that pretty legal?

    I think it goes without saying, this is a nice show of what Berry believes is legal.

    Now let the flak fly.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the Blood of Patriots and tyrants" Thomas Jefferson
    "I can merely plead that I'm in the presence of a superior being."- KrazyHorse

  • #2
    Originally posted by zakubandit View Post
    WA

    What Berry has failed to notice is that the Congress and Supreme Court of Honduras called for his removal of power. Zelaya was trying to amend the constitution to allow him to stay in office for a second term.
    Wait a sec, aren't you the same guy that was arguing not one week ago that any Amendment passed under Article 5 of the Constitution doesn't really "count" unless the voting public supports it? But now when someone proposes a referendum whereby the voting public can choose whether to amend a term limit, that's "usurping" power?

    How will you weasel out of this delightful little irony?
    Unbelievable!

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    • #3
      A coup is legal when it is successful.
      Graffiti in a public toilet
      Do not require skill or wit
      Among the **** we all are poets
      Among the poets we are ****.

      Comment


      • #4
        It's only usurpation if you're making a duplicate thread on a topic.
        John Brown did nothing wrong.

        Comment


        • #5
          I posted none of my opinion of the matter of Honduran politics. But if you want to know, the population has a majority against Zelaya, and the Congress there is working for their constituents and not against them. What your referring to is the fact that in America laws are passed even when a majority of constituents voice their objections and are ignored by their appointed representatives. Such as the continued use of the Fed which has a mass of US voters calling for its dismantling. When the government fails to follow the needs of the people the government has failed. When the government heeds the call of the people, the people triumph.

          I am moving forwards, why do liberals always want to move backwards. Speak of irony, liberals like to blame Bush for everything. A fair majority of the rest of us like to look forward at the future. Though IMHO that future is not one that benefits from Berry.
          "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the Blood of Patriots and tyrants" Thomas Jefferson
          "I can merely plead that I'm in the presence of a superior being."- KrazyHorse

          Comment


          • #6
            I looked and didn't find any thread about Berry being against the Honduran government and for the usurping exiled president.
            "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the Blood of Patriots and tyrants" Thomas Jefferson
            "I can merely plead that I'm in the presence of a superior being."- KrazyHorse

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by onodera View Post
              A coup is legal when it is successful.
              If it's legal, it's not a coup.
              Apolyton's Grim Reaper 2008, 2010 & 2011
              RIP lest we forget... SG (2) and LaFayette -- Civ2 Succession Games Brothers-in-Arms

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              • #8
                The coup perpetrators pass a law, that makes it legal?
                I've allways wanted to play "Russ Meyer's Civilization"

                Comment


                • #9
                  The fact of the matter is the elected president was trying to maintain his office, a la Hugo Chavez who was made president for life, but the people and the government were not going to allow Zelaya to disobey the 1 term law. Break law - illegal = government of checks and balances ensuring the continued stability of law and order. No one was killed and it wasn't a military coup, in that case a military leader would be in charge and not the elected president of the Senate. It is all legal, decided by the legislative and judicial branches to dislodge the usurping executive powers and replace them with a legal law abiding official until the national elects, or so I assume on that last part.

                  Our government has the same guidelines, which is why there is separation of power and checks and balances.

                  Why are people defending Zelaya? What if it was Obama, and he decided to not step down after his term expired and the people wanted him out? What if Congress and the Supreme Court authorized our troops to do this? Would you defend Obama? Why?
                  "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the Blood of Patriots and tyrants" Thomas Jefferson
                  "I can merely plead that I'm in the presence of a superior being."- KrazyHorse

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Someone would just shoot him and we'd move on.
                    Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
                    "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
                    He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

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                    • #11
                      Now that would be a coup!
                      Apolyton's Grim Reaper 2008, 2010 & 2011
                      RIP lest we forget... SG (2) and LaFayette -- Civ2 Succession Games Brothers-in-Arms

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                      • #12
                        No latin american country will recognize the new gov, this coup has no future.

                        If the people don't support Zelaya, then he will lose the election.
                        I need a foot massage

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                        • #13
                          See Iran.
                          Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
                          "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
                          He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

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                          • #14
                            Honduras is not Iran.
                            I need a foot massage

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Ha. And make him a martyr?
                              "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the Blood of Patriots and tyrants" Thomas Jefferson
                              "I can merely plead that I'm in the presence of a superior being."- KrazyHorse

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