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  • High court backs firefighters in reverse discrimination suit

    http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/06/...ion/index.html


    WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The U.S. Supreme Court sided Monday with white firefighters in a workplace discrimination lawsuit, a divisive case over the role race should play in job advancement.


    The Supreme Court in a 5-4 ruling backs firefighters in a reverse discirmination case.

    1 of 2 In the split 5-4 vote, a majority of the justices ruled that the city of New Haven, Connecticut, improperly threw out the results of promotional exams that officials said left too few minorities qualified.

    One Latino and no African-American firefighters qualified for promotion based on the exam; the city subsequently decided not to certify the results and issued no promotions.

    A group of 20 mostly white firefighters sued, claiming reverse discrimination. Watch the potential implications »

    High court nominee Judge Sonia Sotomayor heard the case on her federal appeals court last year and sided with the city.

    The Supreme Court was being asked to decide whether there was a continued need for special treatment for minorities, or whether enough progress has been made to make existing laws obsolete, especially in a political atmosphere in which an African-American occupies the White House.

    At issue was whether the city intentionally discriminated -- in violation of both federal law and the Constitution's Equal Protection Clause.

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    "The city rejected the test results solely because the higher scoring candidates were white," wrote Justice Anthony Kennedy for the majority. "Fear of litigation alone cannot justify an employer's reliance on race to the detriment of individuals who passed the examinations and qualified for promotions."

    In a dissent read from the bench, Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg questioned the fairness of the test, which was 60 percent written and 40 percent oral.

    "Relying so heavily on pencil-and-paper exams to select firefighters is a dubious practice," Ginsburg said, calling the majority ruling "troubling."

    "Congress endeavored to promote equal opportunity in fact, and not simply in form. The damage today's decision does to that objective is untold," she said.

    Key plaintiff Frank Ricci and others took promotional exams in 2003 for lieutenant and captain positions that had become available in New Haven.

    When the results came back, city attorneys expressed concern about the results, and the New Haven corporation counsel -- after several public hearings -- refused to certify the test, and no promotions were given.

    The city said that under a federal civil rights law known as Title VII, employers must ban actions such as promotion tests that would have a "disparate impact" on a protected class, such as a specified race or gender.

    The Obama administration took a nuanced position on the appeal. A Justice Department lawyer told the high court that while the federal government supported the city's discretion to nullify the test results, it also believed the lawsuit should be allowed to proceed on a limited basis.

    Kennedy argued that "the process was open [and] fair" and that the city officials "were careful to ensure broad racial participation in the design of the test itself and its administration."

    He added that "race-based action like the city's in this case is impermissible under Title VII unless the employer can demonstrate a strong basis in evidence that, had it not taken the action, it would have been liable" under the law dealing with "disparate impact."

    Kennedy said the city had not met that threshold.

    The case has received added attention because Sotomayor was on the appellate court that dismissed the appeal.

    Sotomayor was part of a three-judge panel that ruled in February 2008 to uphold a lower court decision supporting New Haven's move to throw out the results.

    In June 2008, Sotomayor was part of a 7-6 majority that denied a rehearing of the case by the full court.

    Legal analysts said they expect Republicans on the Senate Judiciary Committee will want to ask about her role in that case as well as her comments about ethnicity and the bench.

  • #2
    Firefighters Ruling Expected Monday Could Impact Sotomayor Confirmation

    Supreme Court nominee Sonia Sotomayor ruled for the city of New Haven, Conn., in a reverse discrimination case brought against it by 20 white and Hispanic firefighters denied promotions despite higher test scores than minorities also seeking advancement.

    FOXNews.com

    Sunday, June 28, 2009


    FILE: Supreme Court nominee Sonia Sotomayor (Reuters)


    .

    The case is one of "reverse discrimination." Twenty firefighters -- 19 white and one Hispanic -- who were denied promotions in New Haven, Conn., claim city officials discriminated against them because they were more concerned about potential complaints of Civil Rights Act violations than their performance on advancement exams.

    The white firefighters say discrimination is discrimination no matter what color it takes, and therefore, the city did violate the Civil Rights Act in not promoting the white and one Hispanic firefighters.

    How the justices rule could have a big impact on all businesses and governments that make job-related decisions involving race. In 2003, the high court said universities can consider race as one way to ensure student diversity.

    But the case is also relevant because Sotomayor was one of the three appeals court judges who ruled for the city in the unanimous decision in the lower court.

    A reversal by the Supreme Court that includes very critical remarks about the lower court ruling could be used as ammunition by some senators who don't want to see Sotomayor confirmed.

    Sotomayor's views on race have been the focal point of criticism as she seeks a lifetime appointment to the highest court in the land. She has also been scrutinized for her statement outside the court that a "wise, Latina woman" would come to better conclusions more often than a white man.

    Sotomayor's confirmation hearing is currently scheduled to begin on July 13. Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell told "FOX News Sunday" that her nomination must have a full airing before a vote, and that could mean delaying the hearing scheduled by Democratic senators, a scenario that is unlikely to happen.

    "Just a day or so ago, we discovered that there are 300 boxes of additional material that has just been discovered from her time working with the Puerto Rican Legal Defense Fund," McConnell said. "The committee needs to have access to that material and time to work through it ... so we know all the facts before we vote on a person who's up for a lifetime job."

    If confirmed, Sotomayor will replace Justice David Souter, whose retirement coincides with the end of the court's session on Monday. In April's oral argument of the firefighter case, Souter described it as a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation.

    As Souter retires to New Hampshire, four justices are heading to Europe for summer teaching jobs, including in Austria, Ireland and Italy. But before they do, they also have to issue two other rulings and several orders on cases to accept for next session, which starts on the first Monday in October.

    Among the rulings expected is whether campaign finance law can block movie producers from distributing politically-oriented films or networks from airing ads for those films. The case revolves around a movie distributed by Citizens United that blasted then-presidential candidate Hillary Clinton.

    FOX News' Lee Ross and Caroline Shively contributed to this report
    intresting

    Comment


    • #3


      Its about time we took a more sober view on our social engineering experiments.
      "The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.

      Comment


      • #4
        Where is Jessie Jackson? It's obvious that the test was biased!
        Monkey!!!

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Japher View Post
          Where is Jessie Jackson? It's obvious that the test was biased!
          Why so?

          Comment


          • #6
            Since only the whites could pass it... and one Hispanic who probably cheated.
            Monkey!!!

            Comment


            • #7
              Cheaters
              "The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.

              Comment


              • #8
                I just want it understood that I will close this thread if it doesn't get more African-American and Latino responses pronto.
                Click here if you're having trouble sleeping.
                "We confess our little faults to persuade people that we have no large ones." - François de La Rochefoucauld

                Comment


                • #9
                  Oh crap, where's AS when you need him? I had Taco Bell the other day, does that count?
                  Monkey!!!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    "Relying so heavily on pencil-and-paper exams to select firefighters is a dubious practice," Ginsburg said, calling the majority ruling "troubling."


                    Are there no office positions amongst firefighters? Was the promotion from 'hose carrier' to 'yeller at hose carrier', or was it from 'i run around A LOT and carry obese people' to 'I sit at a desk and do paperwork'?

                    Besides, if a black person can't read and write why should we feel that they are being discriminated against when the position requires they can read and write at a certain level.

                    Or was it an exam over how to perform life-saving procedures? In which case why should someone who doesn't know be considered to know just for the sake of balancing colors.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Thats one of the problems here. This was a PROMOTION exam, or in other words these are the people who will be writing the AARs, the various procedural documents, interacting with the community and government. This "OMG AN ESSAY" crap is ridiculous.
                      "The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Lorizael View Post
                        I just want it understood that I will close this thread if it doesn't get more African-American and Latino responses pronto.
                        Speaking as the blackest person on Apolyton and I disapprove of white people being fire fighters because they're always starting fires themselves (i.e. Burning Jews, setting crosses ablaze, bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki).

                        It's pretty clear that white people enjoy starting fires, not stopping them.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I was wondering about the actual numbers of persons that took the test broken down by ethnicity and how many passed-- An early story I saw had some numbers but they have since disappeared so I wondered if they were in error. I also am curious as to what was on the test that could even bring about the POSSIBILITY of it being racially biased. I understand how "standard" IQ tests were often racially biased with their frequent references to things that would have been common to white middle class folks and not so common to others-- But wouldn't the focus of this test be firefighting and firefighting administration??


                          AA can be a trap. I know that in law, most of the women and minorities that made their way through law school (pre-AA) were amazing people -- smart and determined and often brilliant-- because it was only that type of person that could surmount the numerous hurdles and make it against the prejudices out there-- Women have since attained equality at law school and are just as good and mediocre as the average men. Minorities ? My school had an active AA program and in the interest of filling their slots some minority persons were accepted that just were not academically equipped ( a couple were friends of mine and I also sat on a scholarship committee and saw the numbers ) I wondered at the time if we were doing people any favors. Most of the most successful minority students could have or sometimes actually WERE admitted through the regular admissions process but were then "persuaded" to join the program (there was significant cash involved ).

                          To this day I have mixed feelings about AA generally. I can see where it can do good in some instances I guess but in others it just seems to be an attempt to entrench lesser standards. I would turn the question around a bit -- perhaps the test was fine-- So why an ethnically unbalanced result?

                          1. Is it possible that some of the minority candidates have already been pushed ahead of their white counterparts in previous AA type moves ( more minority candidates ALREADY promoted or a disproportionate number of less experienced minority folks pushed ahead to be allowed to take the test) meaning that the white candidates may be on balance older, more experienced and seasoned.

                          2. Is it something with the education system that produced these firefighters?

                          3. Perhaps there is a completely racist culture there and a lot of the white firefighters had study help or pre-test hints from the whitey establishment?

                          I don'y know the answers to these but when you get a very racially divided result, I do think it makes sense to answer "why". I will take a look for more backgrounder type stories to see if those details are readily available
                          You don't get to 300 losses without being a pretty exceptional goaltender.-- Ben Kenobi speaking of Roberto Luongo

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Exactly, there are far more men than women who get positions in physics.

                            But there are far more men than women all the way down to the 1st year in undergrad level.

                            There isn't a large problem in women not getting fairly treated with regards to hiring in physics.

                            JM
                            Jon Miller-
                            I AM.CANADIAN
                            GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Lorizael View Post
                              I just want it understood that I will close this thread if it doesn't get more African-American and Latino responses pronto.
                              Sheeeit, that's just eight honkies and one Uncle Tom tryin' to keep a brotha down. Get in line, mutha****as.

                              (Yes, I'm ashamed of myself for that one, but not as ashamed as I would be about not doing my part to keep the thread from being closed.)
                              Solomwi is very wise. - Imran Siddiqui

                              Comment

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