Why so much corn?

[Hunter Hutchins]

I don't suppose sugar cane grows so well in North America. And, well, the last thing the aforementioned sugar lobby wants is beets. In any case the market is flooded with corn. There's probably some properties of HFCS which make it convenient to work with in manufacturing.

[SlowwHand]

I would't eat beets on a bet.

[KrazyHorse]

I don't suppose sugar cane grows so well in North America. And, well, the last thing the aforementioned sugar lobby wants is beets. In any case the market is flooded with corn. There's probably some properties of HFCS which make it convenient to work with in manufacturing.

In addition to the fact that it's hugely subsidized, it's a liquid, which is sometimes helpful.

[Zkribbler]

From the Mayo Clinic:

So far, research has yielded conflicting results about the effects of high-fructose corn syrup. For example, various early studies showed an association between increased consumption of sweetened beverages (many of which contained high-fructose corn syrup) and obesity. But recent research — some of which is supported by the beverage industry — suggests that high-fructose corn syrup isn't intrinsically less healthy than other sweeteners, nor is it the root cause of obesity.

Oerdin is correct almost when he says:

Ethanol is ethanol but corn has a relatively low sugar quantity compared to sugar cane and requires a lot of petroleum based fertilizer to grow. The result is when you count the petroleum used to grow the corn, to process it and ferment it, and transport everything... It actually costs more oil then the amount of oil equivalents produced. Sugar cane however has loads of sugar in it plus it grows like a weed so it doesn't need lots of fertilizers there for sugar cane actually produces more oil equivalents then it consumes.

Therefore, making ethanol from corn is a waste of money and we should just import cheap sugar from over seas rather then subsidizing a bunch of fat rednecks in the midwest.

As I understand it, although corn-based ethanol takes more energy to make than sugar-based ethanol, corn-based ethanol does not take more energy to make than it actually produces.

I heard a year or two ago, that a cellulose-based ethanol plant was soon to come online. Has anybody heard about this? It could turn any kind of plant waste into ethanol. Most promising is switchgrass, which is basically a weed and can be grown on very marginal land.


Edit: Another drawback of corn-based ethanol is that, during the last run up of oil prices, the value of corn increased so much as a source of ethanol, that Mexican farmers were tearing up the cactus patches to plant corn, leading to a tequila shortage!

[Dinner]

Ethanol is ethanol but corn has a relatively low sugar quantity compared to sugar cane and requires a lot of petroleum based fertilizer to grow. The result is when you count the petroleum used to grow the corn, to process it and ferment it, and transport everything... It actually costs more oil then the amount of oil equivalents produced.

The point is that the analogy to "clean coal" wasn't apt because there the problem lies simply in the fact of burning coal. If there is a "problem" with ethanol derived from corn it lies in production, not use.

Very true.

Fat renecks also pay taxes and generally support the economy. Why not? Let's end another American industry. You're amazing.

What's really amazing is that taxpayers put up with the high prices, inefficiencies, and market distortions caused subsidies & trade barriers. Free trade will solve this problem thus increasing market efficiencies and actually save everyone money. As an added bonus the fat red necks would have to live without sucking from the government's tits.

Fat rednecks vote. Furniers don't.

This, of course, is the origin of most stupid protectionist measures.

[Elok]

Another drawback of corn-based ethanol is that, during the last run up of oil prices, the value of corn increased so much as a source of ethanol, that Mexican farmers were tearing up the cactus patches to plant corn, leading to a tequila shortage!

Of course, they were already making ethanol...they should just have a tequila-powered car.

[Arrian]

The short answer to the question was contained in the OP:

Corn is cheap...

-Arrian

[KrazyHorse]

Part of the reason corn is so cheap is agro subsidies.

And part of the reason cane sugar is so expensive is tariffs.

So what you end up with is a sweetener market dominated by HFCS. Which, again, I don't have a problem with from a health standpoint. But which is not the efficient solution.

[Arrian]

I thought that went w/o saying. I actually had a couple of sentences in about that, and figured everybody here knew it, so why bother?

-Arrian

[KrazyHorse]

I'm not saying that you didn't. Just making the point explicit.

[BeBMan]

Noone made a "Why so much porn?" copycat yet. My, Polytubbies getting old

[Dis]

Noone made a "Why so much porn?" copycat yet. My, Polytubbies getting old

I already have a thread on that. . titled slightly different, however.

[Spiffor]

Reinheitsgebot

[Japher]

I design fuel grade ethanol plants and am working on a couple cellulosic ethanol designs and portion of designs as well. And I'm paid to do so.

IMO, the reason corn is generally targeted is because of the fact that there is a lot of corn subsidies out there and corn is high in starch. It's not about corn sugar content being converted it's about corn starch content being converted. Saccharification is the primary process in most US grain to ethanol conversion, the rest is exactly the same to cane to ethanol.

The why in the sugar vs. starch conversions has to do with economics and not technology. I don't completely understand it, but there is a lot of beet sugar produced. Using 2nd and 2rd molasses for fuel conversion is expensive because the sell of these products gets you more money on the open market than it would be to convert it.

As for corn by-products, the best part is that if using a wet mill the corn byproducts are taken out at the milling phase, meaning that your waste is sold as that product. There are no sugar byproducts other than begasse that occur without further processing than milling. Additionally, sugar milling, cane and beat, is a tough process and prevents a lot of certain types of downstream processes if you wish to gather sugar as well as byproducts other than molasses.

Also, as far as corn being clean; it is. Our plants, as are most every other plant, zero emitting plants; corn, water (very little in the scheme of things), nutrients, and microorganisms go in and ethanol and distillers grains (used for feedstock feed) comes out. The energy balance is entirely positive, in fact, one we are working on now will actually sell energy back to the grid as well as produce ethanol via a positive energy balance! This has to do with the fact that we use manure from the livestock we feed the waste to to fuel our boilers and the are feet away. Another plant is piggy backing on a sugar mill and will also produce the ethanol as well as sell energy back to the grid.


Why corn? High starch.

Why not algae? That's a better question.

[Dinner]

Spiffor sighting.