[serious] Canadian Airfield Ground Defense

[The Mad Monk]

Awesome connection! The above two links + the d-day threads = JAMES DOOHAN / MONTGOMERY SCOTT. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Doohan

The actor was in the Canadian Army and was wounded in the D-day invasion!

I had no idea Scotty was so kickass.

[bc1871]

I think the problem is you play too much metal gear solid. Real military bases are not fortifications.

I have no idea what a metal gear solid is, but having served in the CF, I understand what the security needs of the service are, and where they are lacking.

[Asher]

So shut up and join the CF.

[Patroklos]

I have no idea what a metal gear solid is, but having served in the CF, I understand what the security needs of the service are, and where they are lacking.

Why don't you explain to us just what would be required to be 100% sure no ninja commando infiltrates a CF base a blows up a warplane. When you are done, I will tell you how much that will cost.

[bc1871]

The first thing that would be required, would be the removal of the Corps of Commissionaires and return access control duties to the hands of the Military Police. Another option, would be to form a Department of National Defense Police Force(similar to that of Britain’s MOD Police, or an armed DND Civilian Guard Service, similar to that which has been implemented in the USAF).

A better fence line system, would be set up. Primarily the main fences should be raised, and reinforced(similar to that of a modern day prison system). Also, an electrified fence system, could be another solution to this problem.
As for the Military Police, if you choose to be a member of the Air Element of the CF, then I believe that just like their predecessors in the RCAF Service Police/RCAF Police they should receive training similar to the styling of the USAF Air Force Security Forces. Ground Defense Training, must be just as important as that of provost skills.

The creation of a dog section, is an important and vital element, that has been lacking in the modern CF. Now in Golden Age of the RCAF, there were instances of dog section, used by RCAF Service Police overseas, but there has never be a consistent or concerted effort to establish a proper military working dog program in Canada proper. Therefore, it would be necessary, to establish a dog section, that receives training in both K-9 Policing/Bomb Detection.

The creation of a proper Canadian Air Force Regiment(styled on that of RAF Regiment), is necessary in providing a solid force protection option, for Canadian Forces Air Force personnel who are deployed overseas in any and all hostile environments. Though the Military Police do a great job of patrolling inside the wire, a well armed and rapidly deployable ground defense/force protection regiment must be made available to the air force, to defend critical air force assets, both in Canada and overseas. The system of using the army for ground defense outside the wire, and relying on personnel assigned to force protection duties, inside the wire, is a tactic which has gone out of favor with the end of WW2. A great example of exposing the weakness of using the army/troops training in force protection to defend airfields, was revealed during the Vietnam War, when the Royal Australian Air Force, being unable to effectively defend its own air assets, created the Airfield Defense Guards.

Finally, a general upgrade of the force protection capabilities of CF Airfields is required. The implementation of guard towers, enlarged secure zones, more random security measures and also making Wing Auxiliary Security Forces training mandatory for all airmen. With the expansion of the Wing Auxiliary Security Forces(WASF), and by rotating more personnel through force protection training, you create an environment of security awareness, along with higher standards of base security.

[Lorizael]

bc1871, as Off-Topic Moderator and Resident Grammar Nazi, I'm going to have to order you to put some goddamn spaces between your paragraphs.

[Patroklos]

So basically you want to double the size of the military budget what providing not a single bit of increased capability. BRILLIANT!!!

[bc1871]

The discussion was about Force Protection not Air Force Capabilities...that would need to be in a totally different thread.
Also, the post has been fixed...hopefully to the satisfaction of our resident “Grammar-Nazi”.

[Patroklos]

Force protection is a capability, unfortuntely since there is no threat of attack against Canadian home bases let alone a threat substantial enough to warrant the use of such resources to prevent it, you are wasting money.

You seem to have no concept of what you are proposing would cost. You are talking about tens of billions in training and salary for tens of thousands of more troops. You are talking tens of billions for the infrustucture you are talkin abouat. And at the end of the day not a dime of that money will increase the capability of the CF to put rounds down range. It is a waste of money based on your video game understanding of the world.

[bc1871]

First off, being a veteran of my own nation's armed forces, I find the fact that you are comparing my views to video games, ****ing insulting. Have you ever served in the US Military...or had any military service for that matter.

Secondly, since this is discussion, and not a policy seminar, the whole idea is to bounce around ideas, not talk in absolutes. Personally, I would like to see a massive increase in Canadian Defense Spending across the board, and to maybe one day bring the CF back to its "Golden Age" when it was a fairly functional fighting force.

[bc1871]

Since this thread is becoming pointless, I'd ask that one of the mod's close it!

[DanS]

Don't have the thread closed just because Pat is pissing you off.

[notyoueither]

and to maybe one day bring the CF back to its "Golden Age" when it was

British.

[Patroklos]

First off, being a veteran of my own nation's armed forces, I find the fact that you are comparing my views to video games, ****ing insulting. Have you ever served in the US Military...or had any military service for that matter.

I say you have a video game understanding of the issue because based on what you have typed here you do have a video game understanding of the issue. I could have just as easily said you had a movie understanding of the issue as well. I say this because only in the movies or video games are military bases ever subjected to such assaults on a regular bases warranting what you propose. Whether you are a veteran or not is irrelevant.

And yes, I have military experience and a significant portion of it was specifically FP oriented (though admittedly mostly overseas focused).

Secondly, since this is discussion, and not a policy seminar, the whole idea is to bounce around ideas, not talk in absolutes. Personally, I would like to see a massive increase in Canadian Defense Spending across the board, and to maybe one day bring the CF back to its "Golden Age" when it was a fairly functional fighting force.

If your point is to make it a "fairly functional fighting force," why would you want to waste so many billions on useless fortifications instead of say new submarines/fighters/C4I/whatever?

Simply saying you want to increase funding is not a discussion, telling us why you want to increase funding and specifically for what and for what purpose and then justifying it against scrutiny is a discussion. Your desire to create fortified home bases did not survive scrutiny, feel free to come at the topic again.

[bc1871]

In the short term I would like to see the security situation of CF Air Stations, return to at least the standards set during the Cold War(especially prior to unification).

One of the changes that always had disturbed me, was the implementation of the unarmed Commissionaires Corps...personally, the former system of using Service Police/Military Police was a lot safer and more efficient. My major concern with the Corps of Commissionaires, is the fact that many of their new guards are no longer veterans, and furthermore their guards are constantly rotated, with many of them being less than professional.

I would even like to see a system similar to what the USAF uses(armed civil guards, who report to the USAF).