GM Declares Bankruptcy

[BlackCat]

God ****ing damnit. So close.

Nah, easy now - just throw in some heavy control and surveillance - that should solve the problem.

[Kuciwalker]

Kuci, it's pretty obvious that you haven't thought very hard about Pigovian taxation.

a bunch of other stuff

OK, I get it. Though, doesn't this ultimately lead to society overpaying for insurance? (Assuming you can't actually charge the 1st person to sign up something different from the Nth person.)

[Kuciwalker]

As well it should be. The point is that the cost of car insurance does not capture the full marginal cost of my choosing to drive in either case. The part that's "missing" will again obviously be higher for urban drivers than for rural drivers. This is why the paper I linked to found almost no externalities associated with driving in places like North Dakota.

However, there are substantial personal risks associated with going somewhere that godforsaken.

[Kuciwalker]

****, except I just realized that it would just lead to accident underreporting. Mother****er.

Something like charging people for accidents they weren't liable for?

[DanS]

I'll have to think about the Pigovian taxes, KH.

rah: I'm partial to the I-pass approach. It's not perfect, but it's a good way to charge based upon distance, time of day, congestion, etc. Suburban Virginia is going to try distance and time of day through an I-pass equivalent, as I understand.

[KrazyHorse]

OK, I get it. Though, doesn't this ultimately lead to society overpaying for insurance? (Assuming you can't actually charge the 1st person to sign up something different from the Nth person.)

Errr...that's why it's called "taxation".

The state ends up with a surplus. You can do whatever you want with the surplus.

The point is that pigovian taxation CORRECTS a distortion in the markets while ordinary taxation CAUSES one. So, all else being equal we would like to collect as much as possible via pigovian taxation and as little as possible via standard, distortionary taxation.

[KrazyHorse]

Something like charging people for accidents they weren't liable for?

Yeah, basically I was going to charge both people for both sides of the accident. But they would just choose not to report and split the liability informally.

[rah]

Yes, a good percentage of accidents are never reported. While most of them are small fender benders there are many that are larger that aren't reported because of wide variety of factors. Where booze, drugs, illegals or a lot of wealth are involved.

[DanS]

Self-driving automobiles
Self-driving automobiles
Self-driving automobiles
Self-driving automobiles
Self-driving automobiles

[KrazyHorse]

[rah]

I'll have to think about the Pigovian taxes, KH.

rah: I'm partial to the I-pass approach. It's not perfect, but it's a good way to charge based upon distance, time of day, congestion, etc. Suburban Virginia is going to try distance and time of day through an I-pass equivalent, as I understand.

Distance = gas tax still works
time of date = got me there.
Congestion = gas tax still works indirectly there.

So time of day vs the privacy issues and the infrastructer cost . I still prefer the gas approach

There has already been cases where spouses used i-pass records to prove spouse infidelity.

[KrazyHorse]

By the way, as far as revenue goes california has state spending of ~150 billion and about 30 million registered cars. There would be a dropoff in that number if we charged a flat 2000$ a year per car, but there would probably remain at least 20 million registered cars (based roughly on the low price elasticity of demand of gasoline). So california could easily raise 1/4 of its state budget via taxation which has NEGATIVE DEADWEIGHT COSTS (i.e. the taxation leads to efficiency gains).

[KrazyHorse]

North Dakota's straight out of luck, on the other hand.

[DanS]

So time of day vs the privacy issues and the infrastructer cost. I still prefer the gas approach

My sense is that time of day pricing would eliminate a lot of problems that we are having in our system. But still, I think it pales in cost-benefit comparison to autonomous vehicles.

In any event, gas taxes are going to become easier to avoid very soon. They are avoidable nowadays in select circumstances.

[rah]

It will be interesting to see how much impact it does have. I'm betting it will be less than anticipated. But, we'll see.