Obama worse than Kissinger?

[Dinner]

How is that in any way hypocrisy? We're not talking about the constitution or even an international treaty, and Bush violated both, but instead just the internal laws of the US which the government has every legal right to change when it pleases. As I recall you supported such legal changes in the past, even when they violated international law, such as the tribunal system and support for torture and illegal wire tapping.

[Dinner]

God damn Rule of Law. How dare it get in the way of saving Italian investments and the valuable goal of shipping jobs to Mexico and China!

It's a matter of losing 20% or losing 90% plus the rule of law has not been violated in the least since all they did was threaten to change the laws unless the financier agreed. Strong arm, yes, violation of the rule of law? No.

Will this negatively impact future financial transactions? Maybe in the short term but given that countries which have done far worse have recovered very quickly I doubt there will be a long term impact. Mexico defaulted on most of it's national debt in the early 80's and five years later it was right back in the regular financial system getting loans as if nothing happened. There is more capital out there then good investments so I suspect the US will be just fine.

[Drake Tungsten]

just the internal laws of the US which the government has every legal right to change when it pleases.

So Obama is above the law? Or are you saying that he can simply change the law by executive dictat? Either way, you're a hypocrite...

[KrazyHorse]

Jon, the reason you have this impression is that the cases where a corp has too much debt and fails spectacularly are apparent to everybody. The newspapers report on it, the talking heads blab about it blah blah blah.

What you DON'T see, unless you look carefully, is at all the companies which are saved and contribute positively due to the financing they receive.

It's an availability bias. You base your judgment on what's around you, instead of trying to get an unbiased sample of the whole world.

[DinoDoc]

just the internal laws of the US which the government has every legal right to change when it pleases.

So Obama is above the law? Or are you saying that he can simply change the law by executive dictat? Either way, you're a hypocrite...

I think he wants to live in Chavez land.

[Dinner]

just the internal laws of the US which the government has every legal right to change when it pleases.

No, I'm just pointing out that law makers can change the law and whining about a politicians threatening to do that is stupid. "It's so UNFAIR!!"

Unfair or not it is a fact and people should have thought about that ahead of time since in politically charged matters politicians do it all the time.

[Dinner]

I think he wants to live in Chavez land.

That claim is so dumb you get to go directly to jail, to not pass go, do not collect $200.

[Elok]

I'm not sure how browbeating businessmen makes Obama worse than the guy who told Nixon to blast the ever-living piss out of Cambodia. When it comes to escalating wars to attack the uninvolved, well, his predecessor did that.

[Drake Tungsten]

No, I'm just pointing out that law makers can change the law

Obama isn't a lawmaker, you moron.

I'm not sure how browbeating businessmen makes Obama worse than the guy who told Nixon to blast the ever-living piss out of Cambodia.

Presidents have pretty substantial war-making powers thanks to their role as Commander in Chief and the lack of any alternative decision-making authority. That's not the case with bankruptcy law. Obama is skirting the law for political reasons in an area where it's quite settled, effective decision-making bodies already exist and the President has had no tradition role.

[KrazyHorse]

If Obama continues down this path the negative consequences in dollars to the US will probably be greater than the negative consequences from the Iraq war or Vietnam.

[Drake Tungsten]

Dude, don't say things like that...

[KrazyHorse]

It's true.

I'm already planning government expropriation derivatives.

[KrazyHorse]

If they ban those I need to have a synthetic substitute.

Hmmm...

[Drake Tungsten]

It's true.

I know...

I'm already planning government expropriation derivatives. ...

If they ban those I need to have a synthetic substitute.

Couldn't you just modify the terms of a CDS to include government expropriation as a liquidity event? Or are we assuming that CDS has already been banned or regulated to the point of worthlessness?

[KrazyHorse]

I'm talking about selling insurance ONLY on the amount that the government expropriates. Not the amount that is lost due to the company owing more than it can pay.