My Mother and the Canadian Health Care System.

[The Mad Monk]

Perhaps Americans simply expect more from their health care system, and this is reflected in "satisfaction."

My mother has been hospitalized several times, most recently two years ago, and the differences in care were pretty stark.

[notyoueither]

Why, then, do you think there's so many complaints about it?

Because people do not feel we are getting the services that our expenditures warrant.

TMMs mother's story is not unique, yet Canada spends a great deal of cash per person on health care compared to other developed countries.

The most unproductive thing that Americans and Canadians do is look at each other's systems and resist change because of the deficiencies that are obvious (in both).

It would be much more productive if we each ignored the other and looked at what is accomplished in other OECD countries with lower expeditures per person.

[Zkribbler]

Perhaps Americans simply expect more from their health care system, and this is reflected in "satisfaction."

Remember, those "satifaction" stats are coming from those who get treated, not from the folks who get turned away or from those who don't even seek treatment because they know they can't afford it.

[CrONoS]

HEALTH CARE ACCESS IN THREE NATIONS: CANADA,
INSURED AMERICA, AND UNINSURED AMERICA

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17175842

But despite significant differences in the financing and
administration of their health systems, most Canadians and Americans with health
insurance are able to get the care they need. In contrast, approximately one in three
uninsured Americans report two or more unmet health needs. Uninsured Americans
may face multiple access barriers, but most frequently cite costs of care. Given the
patchwork financing system in the United States, it is not surprising that many
insured Americans also report that cost is a reason for not receiving needed care.

[CrONoS]

Because people do not feel we are getting the services that our expenditures warrant

It would be much more productive if we each ignored the other and looked at what is accomplished in other OECD countries with lower expeditures per person.

I think Canada is in the means in the OECD. United Kingdom has lower Health Spending than Canada, but health stats are worse than in Canada, France, United States.

Copy/pasted from a previous posts:
How Does The Quality Of Care Compare In Five Countries?

http://content.healthaffairs.org/cgi...t/full/23/3/89

Quote:
Results:In Exhibit 1 the country with the worst result for an indicator is given a score of 100. All other countries are given scores relative to the country with the worst result. The scales are structured so that higher scores always indicate better quality. For example, the breast cancer survival rate is 14 percent better (higher) in the United States than in England, and the suicide rate is 55 percent better (lower)in England than in New Zealand. The actual value of the indicator for the country with a score of 100 is given in the right-hand column, so that any country’s actual
value can be calculated from its score.

[CrONoS]

From the data that I have
US spend 6000$/capita on health.
Canada, Germany & France: Around 3000$
UK: 2500$

Here some random stats:
Life expectancy: US: 76, Can: 80, Germany: 78 , France: 80, UK: 78
Infantile mortality(?): Canada: 5.3 , France: 4, US: 6.8, UK:5
========
Why health spending are so high in United States?


I don't know but here some ideas:

-Technology: There is much more technology by capita than any others OECD countries. (Magnetic resonance imaging, scanners)
Eg: Canada have 4.9 MRI for 1Millions inhabitants, Germany 6MRI/1M, USA 26/1M.
Scanner: 10/1M, Germany 16/1m, USA: 30/1M
- More esthetic's surgery in US?
- Transaction costs are higher in multiple payer system...

[notyoueither]

From what I can tell, Canada is significantly outspending the UK and Australia.

2004 (per capita US$ PPP)
3218.0 Canada
2885.0 Australia
2509.0 UK

http://webnet.oecd.org/wbos/Index.aspx?DatasetCode=HEALTH

As I said, it is better if we ignore the US.

I would be interested in seeing measurements like your earlier scores comparing Canada with these countries.

3397.0 Austria
3311.0 Belguim
3218.0 Canada
3162.0 Germany
3117.0 France
3057.0 Denmark
2964.0 Sweden

[KrazyHorse]

Perhaps Americans simply expect more from their health care system, and this is reflected in "satisfaction."

Quite possibly.

My mother has been hospitalized several times, most recently two years ago, and the differences in care were pretty stark.

Well, let's just say that your mother's treatment was not typical of my experiences with the health care provided by Canadian hospitals. I sat in the ER for ~3 hours when I broke my collarbone at 9 years old, but it was a Friday night. My brother went into surgery within an hour when his toe was run over by a forklift. My mother's two bouts of breast cancer both involved operations within a week of the positive biopsy and radiation therapy started immediately afterward.

[The Mad Monk]

You know, I could probably have phrased that better.

Sometimes we're just a bunch of spoiled brats.

[KrazyHorse]

I'm not pissed at you, TMM (if that's what you think)

I am shocked at the extent of the problems your mom experienced. I'm not surprised at having to wait a week for orthopedic surgery on an ankle. And if she wanted a private room then AFAIK she could have had one, had she been willing to pay. But things like "running out of ice" and being made to sit for 3 days solely because a doc "couldn't be found" to sign the release papers are not typical in my experience.

[SlowwHand]

E.R.'s generally work the same way. If it's obviously serious, you'll wait less time than if it could be a hypochondriac episode. I don't think they're there to mistreat people, especially to the point of letting them die. This is a bad deal, but when it's a person's time, it is.

[notyoueither]

I'm not shocked.

Quality of care is wildly variable from hospital to hospital, from ward to ward, and shift to shift.

There may very well not have been any private rooms available in a smaller, regional hospital. The bit about ice was most likely a bad experience with an entitled member of our health care professions who was too lazy to bother and wasn't worried about job security.

[The Mad Monk]

Thanks, but really, I could have phrased that better.

Some people are never satisfied with what they have, and Americans seem to have more of them. They also tend to be concentrated on the coasts.

[SlowwHand]

That's natural. People landed on the coast of countries and stuck there. Why would you live in Idaho, for instance?

[chequita guevara]

It's some of the most beautiful country in this nation, that's why.