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Are we up for another Russian meddling in Georgia?

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  • Are we up for another Russian meddling in Georgia?



    Thursday, April 16, 2009
    Russia Deploys the Black Sea Fleet

    Russia has sent an official notification to NATO’s general secretary, Hoop Scheffer, proposing that "all upcoming military exercises planned in Georgia should be postponed or canceled.”

    On any other day of the year, I would read news article discussing a disagreement between NATO and Russia regarding Black Sea naval activity and dismiss it, but this isn't an average day. Earlier this week, as per the agreement between Russia and the Ukraine, Russian officials notified the Ukraine that 22 of its Black Sea Fleet vessels will leave Sevastopol for military maneuvers. Those ships were expected to depart earlier this week, but it was noteworthy when all of the amphibious ships deployed first rather than all of the ships at once.

    The Black Sea Fleet has now deployed all 22 ships, which is getting some attention in the region because regional news reports have noted the Russian military exercises taking place in the Caucasus since the political turmoil and protests began last week in Georgia. There has been a lot of discussion over the past several days, mostly unverified hearsay and internet chatter, of movement of Russian troops towards the Russian-Georgian border and into Abkhazia as part of those exercises. Those rumors were confirmed today when an EU monitor told Reuters "it had registered Russian reinforcements at the boundaries between Georgian-controlled territory and South Ossetia and Abkhazia."

    A confidential assessment compiled by EU diplomats in Georgia and seen by Reuters said the Russian reinforcements included tanks, armoured personnel carriers, artillery and "Grad" multiple-rocket launchers.

    "Thus the situation at the ABL (administrative boundary line) remains in flux and volatile as Russian/South Ossetian forces continue to establish new facts on the ground," said the the assessment, dated April 13.


    This afternoon, the Eurasia Daily Monitor also noted the chatter in the region, and weighed in on the unfolding events.

    It is important that the Russian military acknowledges its mobilization and forward deployment of troops and ships. At present, it is impossible to know precisely how many additional army units have been moved within striking distance of Georgian territory. However, the composition of the naval force that disembarked from Sevastopol is not secret, since the Ukrainian authorities must be informed. It seems to be larger than the force that was deployed against Georgia last August. Four large amphibious landing craft left Sevastopol last week, while in August 2008 only two were reportedly deployed to insert a regiment of marines into Abkhazia in the small port of Ochamchira, close to the border with Georgia (Vlast, August 18). The marines were later deployed in the invasion of Western Georgia.


    The report goes on to note:

    After the war, Georgia disbanded its navy, handing over its surviving ships to the local coast guard. The Russian naval flotilla lead by "Moskva" will not find any opposition at sea, but the deployment of a large amphibious force formed of thousands of marines armed with heavy weapons on board is a threatening sight. The low capacity narrow roads leading from Russia into Georgia (one into Abkhazia and another leading into South Ossetia) create immense logistical problems in rapidly deploying large military contingents into Georgia if Moscow opts for a "humanitarian intervention" to bring about "regime change." The insertion of a sizable marine force with heavy weapons was used last August to bypass the clogged up overland routes and this could prove important again. The Russian military knew beforehand the exact timing of its pre-arranged invasion and fully controlled the pre-war armed provocations by the South Ossetian forces, whereas in the present crisis the situation is much more volatile.


    The Jamestown Foundation's Pavel Felgenhauer has a fantastic record when it comes to observing military activity in that region. Just prior to the breakout of hostilities last year, he wrote an article regarding the Russian railroad troops that had completed to connect Russia with Abkhazia. These railroads were used within 10 days of his article to supply the Russian military forces that moved into that territory, thus removing Georgian rule. Last month he noted that with spring melting the snow and ice that prohibits any military activity between Russia and Georgia, Russia's political influence into Georgia was sure to follow. He was right.

    Russia's intentions are unclear. On the same day Russia tells NATO to cancel military exercises, Russia also agrees to hold a fifth round of Geneva talks involving negotiators from Georgia, Russia, United States, and the breakaway regions of Abkhazia, and South Ossetia on May 18-19.

    There is widespread belief that Russia helped finance the demonstrations that began April 9th, but it is noteworthy those demonstrations have become smaller and smaller each day. After a week of demonstrations, polls indicated the public mood was shifting away from the opposition, and Saakashvili remains the most popular politician in Georgia despite the protests and well funded media campaigns against him. Many experts appear to be in agreement the calls for his resignation have failed, and this will end in negotiations. To date, the opposition has dismissed any suggestion of sitting down with Saakashvili, so it is unclear when those negotiations will happen.

    Given that the Russian funded political unrest with demonstrations has failed to achieve its goals, would Russia take military action instead?

    It seemed very unlikely war would break out last August on the opening day of the Olympics. Russia may not be making a move against Georgia, but this is one of the largest Black Sea Fleet exercises we have seen in a long time, and the EU is monitoring large troop movements at the border at the same time, so even without a fire there is plenty of smoke.
    Thoughts?

  • #2
    As long as they don't deploy the VDV

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    • #3
      The west is in bad shape, Russia controls the gas lines that power europe, and the Russian military is on the move in strength.

      ...and what do I think?

      I think its war...

      If not its 1938 and kiss Geogia goodbye.
      Long time member @ Apolyton
      Civilization player since the dawn of time

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      • #4
        I thought this would be some pun with Nastia in Atlanta...

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Lancer View Post
          The west is in bad shape, Russia controls the gas lines that power europe, and the Russian military is on the move in strength.

          ...and what do I think?

          I think its war...

          If not its 1938 and kiss Geogia goodbye.
          You are just jonesing for war with the Russians, aren't you. Every time the list little thing happens, you start salivating for war.

          Seriously, wtf is wrong with you?
          Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

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          • #6
            Least little thing? Not even you can believe that remark.
            Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
            "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
            He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

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            • #7
              Lancer served in the Fulda Gap, the most exposed portion of NATO defenses. Each day could have been the day Russian tanks would overrun his position. Hanging out on a limb like that, day after day, month after month, made him a little suspecious of Russian intentions.

              And let's face it, Russians aren't bashful about resorting to force when they conclude it would benefit their interests to do so.

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              • #8
                Hooah!
                Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
                "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
                He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

                Comment


                • #9
                  Che, that's what I think.

                  Only a delusional monster wants war. I also think I know the Russians pretty well and they are quite capable of snapping up a weaker power, with the exception of ours here of course who would never do such a thing. If they do that its either war or peace with disgrace and the end of NATO though they might not think so.

                  Zkrib, we were going to really give it a try not to get overrun actually.
                  Long time member @ Apolyton
                  Civilization player since the dawn of time

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                  • #10
                    Didn't you tell me once that estimates were you guys would suffer 90% casualties in the first 24 hours? If I'd have been you, I'd have volunteered to set up a defensive position in Brest to protect against an attack from the rear.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      80%, good memory! Then the brass asses made it a bit tougher. They took the ammo our of the vehicles of the reaction force, the cav regiments on the border. Some of it got damaged and that just would not do. We had to load up at the >>>ammo dump<<< at night during >>>war<<<. Like the Russians never heard of missiles.

                      Once the sirens went off at 2AM and we all poured out of our sacks, fired up our tracks and headed for the ammo dump. What a cluster ****! A real emergency and that was my first training on the proceedure. Guys tossing 105 rounds onto M-60A1s, lights on all over to guide in the Russian fighter bombers and all we could think of was finding the 81 rounds so we could gtf outa there. See everything looks different at night under the lights when the ammo dump is mobbed with vehicles don't you know.

                      So we finally get loaded up and out to dispersed positions, but good grief I felt like I had a big white target painted on my back.

                      We were later told that a scientist was making a break for it through the wall and the concern was that the Russians would come across to get him back if he made it, but word was he didn't.
                      Long time member @ Apolyton
                      Civilization player since the dawn of time

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                      • #12
                        That 80% were to be lost not in being overrun (or blown up with the ammo dump) but in a series of ambush manouvers meant to slow the Russians long nuf for the main divisions to get on line and the reforger divisions to get mated with their equipment. We trained in ambush proceedures to no end. They needed that 24 hours and allot of us believed in giving it to them or die trying. Great bunch of guys in the Cav, for the most part.
                        Long time member @ Apolyton
                        Civilization player since the dawn of time

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Zkribbler View Post
                          Lancer served in the Fulda Gap, the most exposed portion of NATO defenses. Each day could have been the day Russian tanks would overrun his position. Hanging out on a limb like that, day after day, month after month, made him a little suspecious of Russian intentions.

                          And let's face it, Russians aren't bashful about resorting to force when they conclude it would benefit their interests to do so.
                          The most aggressive country in the world is the United States. We are occupying three countries at this moment, and bombing a fourth. Yet any time someone mentions the Russians, Lancer starts running around "This is war, this is war!"

                          We aren't going to war with Russia . . . ever.
                          Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Well I'll put it this way then, I have a funny feeling we're going to lose our 'most aggressive' title pretty soon.
                            Long time member @ Apolyton
                            Civilization player since the dawn of time

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                            • #15
                              I wasn't born yet for Finland or Poland but I was 4yo during the Cuban missile crisis, maybe 6 yo, don't exactly recall...been a while since the Hungarian uprising, 10 yo during the Prague Spring, then at 17 yo I was holding the line with the Cav in Germany and learning about the Wall. After that they had their self destructive stint when they invaded Afghanistan. Then along came Gorby and Yelsin and the Russians fell apart. In comes Putin and a gas pipeline, they get it together and invade Georgia.

                              Now why would I ever think the Russians would invade Georgia again?

                              Whatever has come over me?
                              Long time member @ Apolyton
                              Civilization player since the dawn of time

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