Let's talk about Russia's military

[Verto]

This is not a troll thread! Honest.

So Putin is ramping up the investment in the military.

What's the state-of-the-art in Russia's military? Airplanes (transports, bombers, air-to-air, air-to-ground), helicopters, stealth technology? How about submarines and naval fleets (do they even have aircraft carriers?) Tanks and land vehicles, anything interesting there?

Dish!

Russia's throwing money at their military, at the expense of their infrastructure and long-term economy. It's cyclical.

[Asher]

Russia doesn't need infrastructure or economy. They distill Vodka locally, no?

[Docfeelgood]

Yes, few people (including Serb) realized Canada had the third largest navy in the world by the end of WW2.

kayaks and dinghys don't count.

[Asher]

LOL. A regular JIM CARREY.

[onodera]

Damn, you two are a match made in Heaven.
Sadly, I have to go to work in 5 minutes, so I will reply in the evening. Don't get this thread locked, please.

[Dinner]

We have no intention to invade Canada. We have a lot of barren lands already.

Hey, those lands aren't barren. We Americans refer to them as our northern resource area.

[Dinner]

Russia's throwing money at their military, at the expense of their infrastructure and long-term economy. It's cyclical.

The same could be said of the US though we at least start with a higher level of development. Everything I've heard about Russian infrastructure though says it is wretched so Putin (who still runs the show) really should be putting the money there instead of into more weapons which will rust away unused.

[Dinner]

BTW I was playing HOI2 today (as Hungary) and it was funny watching Finland kick the red army's ass.

It's currently 1941 and the winter war is still going on with Finland not only retaining all of its land but the AI also managed to cut off and destroy all of the units in the far northwest of Russia. Some 30-35 divisions killed by mighty Finland. The Finns were doing so well the German AI even refused to give the USSR half of Poland and the Baltic states are still standing since the USSR didn't DoW them as they had their hands full with Finland. It's great stuff.

[Verto]

The same could be said of the US though we at least start with a higher level of development. Everything I've heard about Russian infrastructure though says it is wretched so Putin (who still runs the show) really should be putting the money there instead of into more weapons which will rust away unused.

I've been researching Russia's resurgence for a paper for one of my classes. Here's an example of what I'm referring to:
(From Foreign Affairs)

One key question is just how reliable the Russian energy supply really is. Despite having the world's largest gas reserves, Russia now faces a domestic shortage of gas. Gazprom, the country's dominant gas supplier (which, when it comes to foreign policy, doubles as an arm of the Kremlin), is not producing enough for an economy growing at more than six percent a year. Production from Gazprom's three biggest gas fields, which account for three-quarters of its output, is in steep decline. The one large field that the company has brought on-stream since the end of the Soviet era is reaching its peak. Overall gas production is virtually flat.

According to the Institute of Energy Policy, in Moscow, Gazprom's capital investments in new gas production in the years 2000-2006 were one-quarter the size of its investments in other activities: media companies, banks, even chicken farms, as well as its downstream investments in western Europe's energy networks. Despite the enormous revenues to be gained from the new production of gas, Gazprom rarely attempts to find or produce more. As a result, it is unable to come up with enough gas to meet internal demand and its export obligations.

After more than ten years of delay, Gazprom has decided to develop a big field on the Yamal Peninsula -- a barren and barely accessible region in the Arctic. But the earliest that gas from Yamal will reach the market is 2011. Meanwhile, demand for gas -- from RAO Unified Energy System of Russia (UESR), Russia's electricity monopoly, as well as from expanding industrial companies and households -- is growing by about 2.2 percent annually, according to a recent report by the investment bank UBS. "The risk of supply crisis is real," the report noted, if growth in demand accelerates to 2.5 percent.

The impending shortage means that Gazprom will not be able to increase gas supplies to Europe, at least in the short term -- something that European countries should be aware of and concerned about. This may explain why Gazprom abandoned its plan to send gas from the Shtokman field, in the Barents Sea, to the U.S. market as liquefied natural gas and diverted it to Europe instead. The decision, initially interpreted as a move intended to irk Washington, may actually have been a sign of desperation: sending Shtokman gas to Europe would free up Siberian output for domestic consumption.

The problem, of course, is not a lack of gas -- Russia has 16 percent of the world's total known reserves -- but Gazprom's investment strategy. Over the past few years, the company has spent vigorously on everything but developing its reserves. It has built a pipeline to Turkey, taken over an oil company, invested in UESR, tried to gain footholds in European distribution markets, and become Russia's biggest media company. All this was done in the name of creating and sustaining a "national energy champion." Yet investment in Gazprom's core business was grossly inadequate.

There is another problem facing Gazprom: the actual engineering costs of developing new gas fields in Russia. In the Shtokman gas field and on the Yamal Peninsula, in particular, the engineering costs, including the cost of transporting the output to Europe, are twice as high as for new gas fields in North Africa and the Middle East. The international gas market is already beginning to recognize this, and, over the long term, it could be enormously dangerous for Russia. Indeed, Russia may actually be putting itself out of the gas business, because high engineering costs for new projects in Russia are signaling to the market that Russia and Gazprom lack the capacity to develop these fields. Western companies could come in and do the job, but given the Kremlin's recent usurpation of Shell's investments on Sakhalin Island, these companies would be remiss in their fiduciary duties if they undertook such investments.

[onodera]

This paper mentions RAO UES? It must be old.

Nevertheless, back to the topic. As you might have noticed, Serb's view is unnecessarily optimistic, but this is to be expected of our ursine friend. I, as you know, present a more balanced view that is found boring by many.
Let's start, shall we.
Our army is not the best in the world, of course. We don't have the manpower of China, and we don't have the ludicrous military budget of the USA (I really like this picture: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:20...diture_MER.svg ). Our navy has never been strong since the transition to coal (mainly because we have too much land and too few navigable seas that aren't almost landlocked), with the sole exception of the submarine fleet. Our military tech is not top-notch (it takes 15+ years for a defence program to mature, and this means we are in a Yeltsinate slump), as Bulava tests and that brief war with Georgia have shown.
This is exactly why Putin's ramping up the expenditure. To mass-manufacture promising military technology (stuff Serb has mentioned), to rebuild military infrastructure (and civilian infrastructure will follow, remember who built the roads of the Roman empire?). I just hope he won't make the usual blunder and make the army soldier-oriented. You know, stuff like "the enemy might have better technology, but we have more machines with better (gutsier) soldiers behind the wheel/whatever". This might win us another great war, but will bleed us completely dry. We need more military robots.

[Patroklos]

I see you posses a great knowledge of the Russian military history. I have no desire to enlighten you, morons. (who do you think escorted all those convoys to Murmansk all those years? Santa Claus?)

Please name the Russian ships involved in defeating the Scharnhorst, thanks.

[Asher]

Great Naval Battles = best PC game series, ever.

[Asher]

GNB1: http://free-game-downloads.mosw.com/...battles_1.html
GNB3: http://free-game-downloads.mosw.com/...battles_3.html
GNB4: http://free-game-downloads.mosw.com/...battles_4.html
GNB5: http://free-game-downloads.mosw.com/...battles_5.html

[bc1871]

We should go on the offensive, and nuke Russia!

[Patroklos]

Nukes are for nations you can't beat conventionally