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I just said I supported the creation of a two-tier universal healthcare system in the U.S. in another thread. You two are so far gone that you don't even know what a "right-winger" is anymore.
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I just said I supported the creation of a two-tier universal healthcare system in the U.S. in another thread. You two are so far gone that you don't even know what a "right-winger" is anymore. -
And in exactly the same thread, you were using stale right wing talking points proving that you have absolutely no clue about health care policy.
You're going to make the federal government responsible for all the health care costs in America in the hopes that you can eventually force Americans to accept a lower level of service than most of them are accustomed to. Sounds like a disaster in the making."Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-BokononComment
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That's just as true now as when I first said it.
Universal healthcare in America isn't going to "cut costs" as you claim, since Americans are extremely unlikely to accept the reduction in services that would be needed to achieve that. I still support universal healthcare despite this, but with cuts to other entitlements (Social Security being the obvious target) to keep entitlement spending from sucking up an unhealthy amount of U.S. GDP.Comment
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Universal healthcare in America isn't going to "cut costs" as you claim, since Americans are extremely unlikely to accept the reduction in services that would be needed to achieve that.
More stale right wing talking points. You clearly have no familiarity with this topic, yet you persist.
As I wrote in the other thread, just about every other system in the developed world has drastically lower costs with better health outcomes. Health care isn't exactly a zero sum business. The specific kind of organization matters. A lot.
Look at Table 1 in the Statistical Annex, for example:
"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-BokononComment
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And no Social Security cuts mean jack in the context of the deficits due to health care spending. The idea that cutting SS is a substitute for cost control in health care is a lunatic fantasy.
"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-BokononComment
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Straight-line projections
As I wrote in the other thread, just about every other system in the developed world has drastically lower costs with better health outcomes.
Every other system has had decades to get its population used to rationing and reduced services. Good luck forcing that on the American people at this point.Comment
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None of those curves look like "straight lines" to me, and yes, projections should typically give lower order terms in an expansion higher precedence.
But the CBO is obviously full of ****. We should instead be relying on the non-existent projection that relies mostly on the 7th time derivatives.
"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-BokononComment
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Every other system has had decades to get its population used to rationing and reduced services. Good luck forcing that on the American people at this point.
The outcomes are typically higher. Often substantially higher (like the French system). But I'm sure everyone would turn down lower costs and better health. Who would want that?"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-BokononComment
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But the CBO is obviously full of ****.
I'm questioning the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, not the CBO. Why couldn't you have found an actual CBO or GAO projection? I know they exist, since I was briefed on them last year.
edit: No wonder those projections looked a lot like the ones CAP uses...
According to New York Times reporter Matt Bai, CBPP is one of three left wing think tanks funded by the Democracy Alliance. The other two are the Center for American Progress and the Economic Policy Institute.
edit 2: This report from the CBPP doesn't seem to disagree with me...
The main sources of rising expenditures are rising costs throughout the U.S. health care system and
demographic changes, with health care costs playing the larger role. Together, these two forces will
cause the “big three” domestic programs — Medicare, Social Security, and Medicaid — to grow
considerably faster than the economy. Collectively, these three programs are projected to grow by
slightly more than 13 percent of GDP between now and 2050.
All other programs, including all domestic programs other than the “big three,” are projected to
grow more slowly than the economy in coming decades and consequently do not contribute to the
projected rise in deficits and debt. Of particular note, entitlement programs outside of the “big three”
are projected to grow more slowly than the economy. Common pronouncements that the nation’s
fiscal problems result from a general “entitlement crisis” are thus mistaken.
Why exactly can't a cut in Social Security expenses (one of the "big three") be used to limit the growth in overall entitlement spending down by counteracting the rise in healthcare expenses?Last edited by Naked Gents Rut; March 9, 2009, 19:58.Comment
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Here's the totally different projection from the CBO.
Attached Files"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-BokononComment
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Why exactly can't a cut in Social Security expenses (one of the "big three") be used to keep the level of overall entitlement spending down by counteracting the rise in healthcare expenses?
Are you blind? Honestly, WTF?"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-BokononComment
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Here's the totally different projection from the CBO
Those projections aren't the same. This is obvious just from eyeballing them. Federal spending begins to exceed tax revenues in a different year in all three graphs.
None of the projections are particularly convincing, either. The contrast between the smooth upward trend of the Medicare/Medicaid projection compared with natural rise and fall that proceeds it in the actual data is pretty stark.Comment
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Tax revenues aren't a fixed quantity. You have to make a set of assumptions here. To name a few: the AMT, the Bush 2001 tax cuts, the Bush 2003 tax cuts. Plus others that probably aren't in any of these graphs. Obviously, that isn't the relevant number in these graphs.
So we're back to the CBO being full of **** because it doesn't include the all-important 7th and 8th order terms.
"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-BokononComment
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The contrast between the smooth upward trend of the Medicare/Medicaid projection compared with natural rise and fall that proceeds it in the actual data is pretty stark.
Jeebus. The "natural rise and fall" is due to the other spending. All there is, is rise. You're clearly entering Ben territory here."Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-BokononComment
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I'm not blaming the CBO; no one can accurately project government spending over the next ten years, let alone the next 80. I just think its funny that you put stock in such an obviously questionable projection.
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