Tweet
Originally posted by Theben
View Post
-
The cheap overseas labor definitely contributed to low wages. It also contributed to keeping prices low which discouraged further production increases in the US. With prices low it was more profitable to loan consumers money than to increase production further in the US, even though it caused a meltdown.I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett Kavanaugh -
A happens. B happens at the same time. C happens, and is proximately due to E, J, L, and S. If your philosophy only accounts fo A and B, then your explanation will say C is due to A and B. Capitalists who own production assets and pay labor, don't lend money as an alternative to paying labor. They do make profits which they invest in their own interest. Some investment vehicles do lend money, but the choices made are way more dissipated and indirect than the expressions imply.
No matter where you go, there you are. - Buckaroo Banzai
"I played it [Civilization] for three months and then realised I hadn't done any work. In the end, I had to delete all the saved files and smash the CD." Iain Banks, authorComment
-
The meltdown came from stacking bad investment vehicles (derivatives) on top of each other, and using the house pricing boom as the basis for the whole scheme. When house prices began going the other way, the whole system collapsed. Not based on wages, investment capital, or retail loans at all. If C appears to the pros to be due to E, J, L, and S (primary causes), then coming along and insisting that items affected tertiarily were the REAL cause doesn't make it actually so. It just reflects your own philosophy.
No matter where you go, there you are. - Buckaroo Banzai
"I played it [Civilization] for three months and then realised I hadn't done any work. In the end, I had to delete all the saved files and smash the CD." Iain Banks, authorComment
-
You don't think people own both GM and Citibank?Originally posted by Blaupanzer View PostI drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett KavanaughComment
-
If you own shares in companies, you will notice that they don't ask you for advice on investments, creating derivitives or ignoring the demand for high fuel efficiency. The people who actually run companies like GM, the managers, are3 to all intent and purposes, ignored by Marxist philosophy. Those were the people to whom I was refering. They don't look at the marginal dollar and say, "I know, let's lend this out at 10% to someone." They might buy Citibank shares, but they wouldn't have any real idea what those managers are actually going to do.
A side note: If you buy shares in a company, you don't buy them from the company. You buy them from a third party who in turn wants to sell. So "people own both GM and Citibank" don't actually run those companies or decide on worker's pay versus lending decisions.
No matter where you go, there you are. - Buckaroo Banzai
"I played it [Civilization] for three months and then realised I hadn't done any work. In the end, I had to delete all the saved files and smash the CD." Iain Banks, authorComment
-
No. They end up with profit which they do not use to pay wages or expand production. They do in fact invest/lend that money. That money is in turn lent out to consumers, since no businesses are borrowing. It's the capitalists as a group or the capitalist system (if you like) that makes the **** hit the fan.Originally posted by Blaupanzer View PostIf you own shares in companies, you will notice that they don't ask you for advice on investments, creating derivitives or ignoring the demand for high fuel efficiency. The people who actually run companies like GM, the managers, are3 to all intent and purposes, ignored by Marxist philosophy. Those were the people to whom I was refering. They don't look at the marginal dollar and say, "I know, let's lend this out at 10% to someone." They might buy Citibank shares, but they wouldn't have any real idea what those managers are actually going to do.
You've never heard of an IPO? But the issue is that you own part of the company.A side note: If you buy shares in a company, you don't buy them from the company.
You have no idea how powerfull shareholders are. Shareholders can fire the CEO if he decides to make the company pay wages instead of dividends.You buy them from a third party who in turn wants to sell. So "people own both GM and Citibank" don't actually run those companies or decide on worker's pay versus lending decisions.
I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett KavanaughComment
-
A whole lecture on the subject by the same person.
Capitalism Hits the Fan: A Marxian View from UVC-TV 19 on Vimeo.Last edited by Kidlicious; February 27, 2009, 13:44.I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett KavanaughComment
-
As a shareholder, try to make wages over investments happen. There is nowhere to even begin. Big retirement funds can wield influence, but the people managing them aren't looking out for the worker either.
IPOs are handled by investment banks. You, the potential shareholder, do not buy directly from the company.No matter where you go, there you are. - Buckaroo Banzai
"I played it [Civilization] for three months and then realised I hadn't done any work. In the end, I had to delete all the saved files and smash the CD." Iain Banks, authorComment
-
Who said shareholders don't want more dividends?Originally posted by Blaupanzer View Post
Someone buys the damn shares! The investment bank if you like.IPOs are handled by investment banks. You, the potential shareholder, do not buy directly from the company.I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett KavanaughComment
-
He's really nailed the sleazy used car salesman lookOriginally posted by Kidicious View Post"The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "Comment
-
You're always so intellectualOriginally posted by Asher View PostI drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett KavanaughComment
-
As we've seen in this current crisis, the shareholders sure told the CEO's how to behave. I'm wondering which CEOs were listening to me, as my Thrift Savings Plan owns stockOriginally posted by Kidicious View Post
“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)Comment
-
Who cares whether CEOs listen to you personally? They definitely listen to major stockholders with power. The shareholders say, "make profit." And that's exactly what the CEOs do. In fact, their pay is in accordance with the profit they make.Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui View PostAs we've seen in this current crisis, the shareholders sure told the CEO's how to behave. I'm wondering which CEOs were listening to me, as my Thrift Savings Plan owns stock
You seem to think that I'm talking about some individuals, as if it's a conspiracy or something. I'm talking about the actions collectively taken by the capitalist class, and the failures of the capitalist system.I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett KavanaughComment
-
You realize there are some companies that make profit AND take care of their employees with high wages and perks, right?
You've heard of this... Google company?“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)Comment
-
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui View Post
There you go with the word, "some." Look at the graphs provided. I'm not interested in "some" companies. I'm interested in the system as a whole.I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett KavanaughComment
Comment