The party of Beavis and Butthead

[Thue]

It is funny because it has a grain of truth in it .

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/02/25/what-should-government-do-a-jindal-meditation/

What should government do? A Jindal meditation

What is the appropriate role of government?

Traditionally, the division between conservatives and liberals has been over the role and size of the welfare state: liberals think that the government should play a large role in sanding off the market economy’s rough edges, conservatives believe that time and chance happen to us all, and that’s that.

But both sides, I thought, agreed that the government should provide public goods — goods that are nonrival (they benefit everyone) and nonexcludable (there’s no way to restrict the benefits to people who pay.) The classic examples are things like lighthouses and national defense, but there are many others. For example, knowing when a volcano is likely to erupt can save many lives; but there’s no private incentive to spend money on monitoring, since even people who didn’t contribute to maintaining the monitoring system can still benefit from the warning. So that’s the sort of activity that should be undertaken by government.

So what did Bobby Jindal choose to ridicule in this response to Obama last night? Volcano monitoring, of course.

And leaving aside the chutzpah of casting the failure of his own party’s governance as proof that government can’t work, does he really think that the response to natural disasters like Katrina is best undertaken by uncoordinated private action? Hey, why bother having an army? Let’s just rely on self-defense by armed citizens.

The intellectual incoherence is stunning. Basically, the political philosophy of the GOP right now seems to consist of snickering at stuff that they think sounds funny. The party of ideas has become the party of Beavis and Butthead.

[ZEE]

AAHZ-Summary™, plox?

danke.

[Imran Siddiqui]

For example, knowing when a volcano is likely to erupt can save many lives; but there’s no private incentive to spend money on monitoring, since even people who didn’t contribute to maintaining the monitoring system can still benefit from the warning. So that’s the sort of activity that should be undertaken by government.

Translation: Krugman is an IDIOT!

Jindal was saying that this type of thing is not something that should be in an "EMERGENCY" stimulus bill or necessarily increased when the economy is struggling. He wasn't saying it shouldn't be undertaken by the government at all.

[Naked Gents Rut]

Krugman is a hack, not an idiot. A Ramo, not an Oerdin.

[Thue]

Translation: Krugman is an IDIOT!

Jindal was saying that this type of thing is not something that should be in an "EMERGENCY" stimulus bill or necessarily increased when the economy is struggling. He wasn't saying it shouldn't be undertaken by the government at all.

If the money is a one-time cost for building infrastructure for monitoring volcanoes then it is perfectly reasonable to do it as a one-time cost as part of a stimulus bill. Like building a road, which will also need a bit of maintainance later.

So this is not obviously a bad item for a stimulus bill. So why did Jindal choose it, and not some item which is more obviously bad? The Beavis and Butthead factor .

[Dinner]

Translation: Krugman is an IDIOT!

Jindal was saying that this type of thing is not something that should be in an "EMERGENCY" stimulus bill or necessarily increased when the economy is struggling. He wasn't saying it shouldn't be undertaken by the government at all.

The point of the stimulus bill was two fold 1) to stimulate the economy and 2) to soften the blow to those worst effected by the (second) Bush recession. The USGS has said there is a greatly increased chance for a volcano about 100 miles from Anchorage to go off since it started venting steam and ash last month but there is no money to buy monitoriing equipment so they can't effectively provide an early warning to citizens in and around Anchorage. This equipment will allow them to do that so it seems like a good investment plus it will stimulate the economy and provide jobs (since most of this expensive equipment is domestically made and someone has to install them on the volcano).

Next Jindal flat out lied when he claimed it would cost $140 million. Here's the language from the bill:

US Geological Survey

For an additional amount for ”Surveys, Investigations, and Research”, $140,000,000, for repair, construction and restoration of facilities; equipment replacement and upgrades including stream gauges, and seismic and volcano monitoring systems; national map activities; and other critical deferred maintenance and improvement projects.

In other words the $140 million is for a lot of different activities all under the USGS's jurisdiction. Gee, do you think building construction will create jobs? What about restoring and retrofitting buildings? Purchasing new equipment such as "stream gauges, and seismic and volcano monitoring systems"? Won't someone have to actually do the national mapping activities? What about those "critical deferred maintenance and improvement projects", surely there is work to be done there? Imran, I'm tired of this fly by crock of crap people keep throwing at the stimulus bill because all of this stuff is clearly valuable and provides jobs.

[Arrian]

To me, there is one crucial difference:

I enjoyed Beavis & Butthead.

-Arrian

[Ramo]

This is what Jindal said:

But Democratic leaders in Congress -- they rejected this approach. Instead of trusting us to make wise decisions with our own money, they passed the largest government spending bill in history, with a price tag of more than $1 trillion with interest. While some of the projects in the bill make sense, their legislation is larded with wasteful spending. It includes $300 million to buy new cars for the government, $8 billion for high-speed rail projects, such as a "magnetic levitation" line from Las Vegas to Disneyland, and $140 million for something called "volcano monitoring." Instead of monitoring volcanoes, what Congress should be monitoring is the eruption of spending in Washington, D.C.[/b]

He was singling out volcano monitoring (and in the process, lied about how the USGS appropriations is allocated) specifically because he thought it sounded funny (just like how "magnetic levitation" and Disneyland are supposed to sound funny). He also implicitly said that monitoring volcanoes is not a proper role for the federal government (but monitoring hurricanes, apparently, is). But to be fair, I don't know whether he's dumb enough to actually believe that, or just that he believes that the American people are. But this is fairly consistent for these guys. Hence the demagoguery over sex as an attempt to derail the stimulus. Or remember the retarded lines that McCain and Palin were using to mock studies on the genetics of fruit flies and bears ("I don't know if it was a paternity or criminal issue")?

If the Republicans were going to make a serious argument about the efficacy of the stimulus, they'd be talking about the $70 billion AMT fix (that they were pushing for). Making an argument against volcano monitoring by lying about its price and saying that it sounds funny is not serious. It's comic, but unfortunately more in the vein of Rush Limbaugh than Mike Judge.

[OzzyKP]

To me, there is one crucial difference:

I enjoyed Beavis & Butthead.

-Arrian

[Sprayber]

To me, there is one crucial difference:

I enjoyed Beavis & Butthead.

-Arrian

Did they ever score?

[OzzyKP]

Butthead totally got it on with Cher.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Imran, I'm tired of this fly by crock of crap people keep throwing at the stimulus bill because all of this stuff is clearly valuable and provides jobs.

So does paying people to dig holes and fill them back in again. Clearly valuable and provides jobs.

The stimulus was meant to be a short term jolt to the economy to prevent economic collapse. That's why it had to be rushed through. That's why it had to be passed without the promised 48 hours to review it.

This stuff, while perhaps good policy does not belong in an emergency stimulus plan.

[Theben]

AAHZ-Summary™, plox?

danke.

Anyone who listens to gansta rap will be interned at Gitmo once it closes down as a military facility.

[Thue]

So does paying people to dig holes and fill them back in again. Clearly valuable and provides jobs.

The stimulus was meant to be a short term jolt to the economy to prevent economic collapse. That's why it had to be rushed through. That's why it had to be passed without the promised 48 hours to review it.

This stuff, while perhaps good policy does not belong in an emergency stimulus plan.

Is it so clear that this money does not belong? If you can write the check to the subcontractors right away for the one-time infrastructure investment then it is the perfect target for emergency stimulus.

[Imran Siddiqui]

One can make the same argument for hiring people to build SDI facilities too (or the sort) . Basically, in that argument any project that hires people can be thrown in.

One of the reason infrustructure improvements were so focused on is that not just that it would put people back to work (especially those in hard hit industries like construction), but fixing infrastructure would have a multiplying effect. Better roads and bridges results in increases for other private industries. Not only does it put those people back to work quickly (and gets completed fairly quickly in those cases), but helps out other businesses as well. It's good bang for the buck.

Why couldn't the Anchorage volcano monitoring be included in the upcoming budget bill (where it can be looked at and debated), rather than be said it was part of the plan that was necessary to prevent economic collapse?

Not everything need be in an emergency stimulus bill. Only those which are deemed most necessarily and stimulative of the economy (only to as much as is needed, as we do have to pay this back).